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#61
Old 06-04-2012, 11:26 PM
nomadman
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Originally Posted by LoadedWraps View Post
Easy. I will tell you the same thing I told people that try and make that argument against Barry Bonds.

Roids don't make you skillful or talented, I could take roids for the rest of my life and I will probably never hit a home run, win a world title, or anything of the sort. People put too much stock into PED's like they will actually make you better. You still have to be good at the sport people! Roids only enhance you. Roids didn't make Mosley, Bonds, or anyone. They just give you an edge.
Mosley was good at what he did regardless.
That's not much of an argument though, is it?

No one, except the very naive, believe steroids turn you into a superman, but they do give you an edge, you admit that yourself, and it's an illegal edge. When you're talking about top class athletes that are otherwise evenly matched in skill and talent, then juicing can be the difference between a win and a loss.

In boxing it can also be the difference between life and death. That's why quite a lot of people have rather strong feelings about those who use them.
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#62
Old 06-04-2012, 11:27 PM
devildg
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Originally Posted by nomadman View Post
That's not much of an argument though, is it?

No one, except the very naive, believe steroids turn you into a superman, but they do give you an edge, you admit that yourself, and it's an illegal edge. When you're talking about top class athletes that are otherwise evenly matched in skill and talent, then juicing can be the difference between a win and a loss.

In boxing it can also be the difference between life and death. That's why quite a lot of people have rather large objections to their use.
i dont...dont be a boxer if you are concerned about your health

boxing is entertainment.

Sugar Shane was a legend in his prime, i wish we had more like him
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#63
Old 06-05-2012, 12:09 AM
nomadman
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I enjoy sparring as well, and if someone is more conditioned or has some edge on me because of PED's I am not going to make a big deal out of it, I would come off as weak, and making excuses, and that's in my own gym. Now I can't speak on the grand stage like elite fighters, but it just isn't something you do, look for excuses to why you lost or whatever. I agree, conditioning well wins the fight most of the time, because if you can't throw punches, and move defensively around the ring at the same rate in round 9 as you did in round 2, and your opponent realizes this, you are in trouble.
You might not make a big deal of it, but then it's not your life or livelihood on the line, is it? Steroid use is still, last I checked, against the rules in boxing, so those that use them are still fighting with an unfair advantage, and fighting, as I'm sure you're aware, is quite different from sparring.

But just to continue the argument, what if someone sparred you with blatantly obvious plaster wraps under their gloves? Maybe they're pulling their punches, but they're still marking you up more than you'd like. Would you happily continue sparring with them, not objecting in the slightest because excuse making is for weaklings, or would you throw them out of your gym?

You can say the situations are not the same all you like, but in both cases the fighter in question is attempting to gain an illegal edge over you. Plaster wraps don't make you faster or more skillful either, but they allow you to inflict more damage on an opponent just as PEDs do, though in a more direct way. By condoning PED use, as you seem to be hinting at, you're essentially condoning cheating of all sorts, plaster wraps, crooked refs, glove tampering and the like.

They're one and the same.

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Originally Posted by LoadedWraps View Post
But still, my point is this. You give a random person with average conditioning roids and throw him in the ring with a AM fighter with superior skill and conditioning, as well as more ring experience at the same weight, and the more experienced fighter wins every time. Minus that freakishly small percent of a chance the other guy gets a lucky punch, if that. and that's like 1/1000. Chances are in sparring they will only go about 6 rounds.
Was De La Hoya a random bum with average conditioning when Shane fought him? I agree with your point in isolation, but it's irrelevant in this case because we're not talking about average individuals, we're talking highly conditioned, highly trained fighters where the difference in skill levels is, in most cases, not very large. Lamont Peterson would likely not have beaten Khan had he not been juiced to the gills, and Khan would not have lost his title and a large amount of his future earning potential. Can the same be said for Mosley De la Hoya? I think it can, and both fights were razor close.
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#64
Old 06-05-2012, 12:13 AM
nomadman
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i dont...dont be a boxer if you are concerned about your health

boxing is entertainment.

Sugar Shane was a legend in his prime, i wish we had more like him
There's a difference between accepted and unaccepted risk. A boxer knows they're risking their life when they step into the ring, but that shouldn't mean they should expect to be repeatedly whacked on the head with a two by four every time they find themselves in the opposing corner, for our "entertainment."

Last edited by nomadman; 06-05-2012 at 12:21 AM.
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#65
Old 06-05-2012, 12:21 AM
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I've been a huge Mosley fan throughout his career, but he does get quite overrated around here. People think things about his run at lightweight and his overall skills that simply aren't true.

As far as the steroid use, I don't hold it that much against anyone in any sport during the mid 90s and early 00s that cheated because you know that everyone was.

Last edited by bojangles1987; 06-05-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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