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#1
Old 05-29-2012, 01:33 PM
therealpugilist
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Default Watching that old Pacquiao ko highlight, young Pac-Man didnt seem destined greatness

The fight that really opened my eyes to Manny Pacquiao was when he kayoed fromer champion Jorge Julio I belive on the Tyson undercard....I saw a few fights of him before then, the Ledwaba fight but he never really impressed me


In fact I never seen a fighter look slower at the lower weights...His hand speed and his foot speed was slower...in the beginning look like he was searching for his personal style....when he was at 112 and 122, he doesnt look like the speed merchant he is at 126 and up

He was very exciting then, but before 2003 I never thought he'd become the fighter he is now
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#2
Old 05-29-2012, 01:36 PM
DLT
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To be fair, alot of those fights where when he was really really young. Most guys would be in the ams
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#3
Old 05-29-2012, 01:46 PM
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yea i know, but most fighters that eventually become professional greats, you see the signs while their in the amatuers or early on in their pro careers....For example everyone new Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Michael Spinks, Roy Jones, their are some that werent the best ams....like Trinidad but we knew he'd be special

Manny kinda came out of no where...I guess thats where the phenomenon comes from
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#4
Old 05-29-2012, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealpugilist View Post
yea i know, but most fighters that eventually become professional greats, you see the signs while their in the amatuers or early on in their pro careers....For example everyone new Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Michael Spinks, Roy Jones, their are some that werent the best ams....like Trinidad but we knew he'd be special

Manny kinda came out of no where...I guess thats where the phenomenon comes from
I disagree. Amir Khan was a great amateur, but he will never be an elite pro. So its not always like that, but most of the time, yes...
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#5
Old 05-29-2012, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therealpugilist View Post
yea i know, but most fighters that eventually become professional greats, you see the signs while their in the amatuers or early on in their pro careers....For example everyone new Sugar Ray Leonard, Pernell Whitaker, Michael Spinks, Roy Jones, their are some that werent the best ams....like Trinidad but we knew he'd be special

Manny kinda came out of no where...I guess thats where the phenomenon comes from
IDK though. Some guys blossom late but I also think he looked more impressive earlier than you give him credit for. Maybe not as skilled & decorated as the Americans you speak of but they were American. It was more high tech training.

Pac's stuff was kinda like in the slums, working with whatever you have, low budget, a million guys in the same place, blah blah blah. Thats why he was pretty one demensional & only used his left. He also clearly didnt have many other guys around to take him to the next level while there are alot of top rated am's in the US for you to spar or fight against.

I just kinda feel like maybe he didnt get the right teaching & training until later on. Definitely didnt have that non stop, relentless speed attack early but I think Merchant was the 1st guy to have him in the P4P top 10 and that was way back when he was fighting guys like Ledwaba so maybe he saw something.

I wouldnt be shocked if it was something else if you know what I mean but I like to give guys the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise because I would want someone to give that to me
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#6
Old 05-29-2012, 01:53 PM
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Cause he didnt become "great" till Ariza joined before the Diaz fight and his quick climb through the weights and champions. I know not the place and dont want to start a back and forth again but thats how i feel and thats what i saw.
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#7
Old 05-29-2012, 01:55 PM
therealpugilist
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Originally Posted by SpeedKillz View Post
I disagree. Amir Khan was a great amateur, but he will never be an elite pro. So its not always like that, but most of the time, yes...
he could be if he switched trainers.....he is essentially the same fighter from the ams....and that pitty pat move around stuff dont always work in the pros....their is no reason why some one with his talent should have lost to Peterson in a close fight...its tactics and strategy.....I cant think of one fighter that Freddie Roach developed from scratch

He needs to get with Emmanuel Steward.....willl make him sit on his punches and throw a stiff jab....not those flickers he love
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#8
Old 05-29-2012, 02:00 PM
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special shakes can help with that
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#9
Old 05-29-2012, 02:01 PM
therealpugilist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLT View Post
IDK though. Some guys blossom late but I also think he looked more impressive earlier than you give him credit for. Maybe not as skilled & decorated as the Americans you speak of but they were American. It was more high tech training.

Pac's stuff was kinda like in the slums, working with whatever you have, low budget, a million guys in the same place, blah blah blah. Thats why he was pretty one demensional & only used his left. He also clearly didnt have many other guys around to take him to the next level while there are alot of top rated am's in the US for you to spar or fight against.

I just kinda feel like maybe he didnt get the right teaching & training until later on. Definitely didnt have that non stop, relentless speed attack early but I think Merchant was the 1st guy to have him in the P4P top 10 and that was way back when he was fighting guys like Ledwaba so maybe he saw something.

I wouldnt be shocked if it was something else if you know what I mean but I like to give guys the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise because I would want someone to give that to me

I see what you are saying about training conditions but alot of fighters in the past came up in similar or worse conditions and showed signs of greatness early on in their careers....until recently most fighters were from poverty stricken areas with ransack gyms in the US and a guy who is so called a "trainer" just because he has a towel over his shoulder


I will say though his conditions improved he did look healthier went up from fly all the way to junior featherweight but was still a one trick poney until quite recently.....jab, left hand, bounce.....repeat
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#10
Old 05-29-2012, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Fetta View Post
Cause he didnt become "great" till Ariza joined before the Diaz fight and his quick climb through the weights and champions. I know not the place and dont want to start a back and forth again but thats how i feel and thats what i saw.
So you saw past MAB.
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