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#21
Old 05-15-2012, 04:41 AM
as646
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Originally Posted by jamiegeorge91 View Post
obviously he was joking o.O
Sorry, retard moment. I didn't read the rest of the post after that sentence.
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#22
Old 05-15-2012, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by as646 View Post
Sorry, retard moment. I didn't read the rest of the post after that sentence.
Ahah easy mistake
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#23
Old 05-15-2012, 08:22 AM
Sam Sexton
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Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
all muscles have something called fascia

repeated light impact to the muscle causes the fascia to grow thicker, as this muscle casing grows thicker it allows the force of an impact to disperse over the muscle better causing less impact in one specific area, when you bruse you break the fascia, toughening the fascia will also help you cut back on brusing and take harder hits before brusing or damage.
That's pretty interesting stuff, have you got any case studies you could send me over just to read up on it by any chance? If it is true, would punching yourself in the arm and damaging the fascia make your arm grow bigger?

Also for the amount the fascia would grow do you think it would actually help take a significant part of the impact from the force of the punch?

I'm still not sold on getting hit in the stomach if you can't tell haha...
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#24
Old 05-15-2012, 09:06 AM
Spartacus Sully
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Originally Posted by Sam Sexton View Post
That's pretty interesting stuff, have you got any case studies you could send me over just to read up on it by any chance? If it is true, would punching yourself in the arm and damaging the fascia make your arm grow bigger?

Also for the amount the fascia would grow do you think it would actually help take a significant part of the impact from the force of the punch?

I'm still not sold on getting hit in the stomach if you can't tell haha...
no its not like an incredible increase in size, its like going from one plastic bag to 2 plastic bags. its not going to make the muscles bigger but it will make the muscles harder.

studies? not really about 4 years ago i took wing chun and with the wing chun dummy i experienced first hand how light repeated light impact can improve your ability to take impacts. but more so i had actually had a conversation with my teacher where he had told me that its not just the bone that increases in density but the whole area from nervs taking more pain to the muscle casing actually getting thicker and explained that the whole thing was called something, i dont remember. some kind of chain or something.

i then went on to look up this topic that i cant remember online and found a few pages on it specifically explaining that the most important part is the casing becoming thicker because it increases your resistance to bruising and disperses the impact more evenly over the muscle.

though as i have no idea what the whole thing combined is called i cant find any kind of studies.

essentially its the same principal as a callus as far as increasing in thickness.

and as far as increasing impact, take some water and fill 2 grocery bags, one of the bags wrap with a second grocery bag. which takes more impact to pop?
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#25
Old 05-15-2012, 04:40 PM
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I think that fact is a little misleading. Resistance training (whether it be calisthenics or weight training) also increases fascia thickness. Sure, you can run around hitting yourself if you like, but it's not going to even do you as much good as core work, multiple joint weighted lifts (ie squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts, overhead press, etc), or training with an external load. If you want to add it on top of your resistance training, more power to you, but you can pay a kid 10 bucks to stand there and hit you everywhere you walk all day and your muscles will not grow more than a very very small bit harder from it.
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#26
Old 05-15-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lilrip133 View Post
I think that fact is a little misleading. Resistance training (whether it be calisthenics or weight training) also increases fascia thickness. Sure, you can run around hitting yourself if you like, but it's not going to even do you as much good as core work, multiple joint weighted lifts (ie squats, deadlifts, olympic lifts, overhead press, etc), or training with an external load. If you want to add it on top of your resistance training, more power to you, but you can pay a kid 10 bucks to stand there and hit you everywhere you walk all day and your muscles will not grow more than a very very small bit harder from it.
no ones going to be punching them selfs in the stomach for boxing and using it as their sole means of training.
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#27
Old 05-16-2012, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
and as far as increasing impact, take some water and fill 2 grocery bags, one of the bags wrap with a second grocery bag. which takes more impact to pop?
Although this sounds pretty cool it's a massively flawed theory as it doesn't really relate to boxing. Get one of your friends to hold a grocery bag and punch through it. Get another grocery bag which is the same material but double the thickness and throw a punch, the extra thickness will be irrelevant because of the force of the punch and your fist will go through just as easy.

As Lilrip said big core exercises like squats, deadlifts etc. will be so much more beneficial.
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#28
Old 05-16-2012, 06:26 AM
Spartacus Sully
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Originally Posted by Sam Sexton View Post
Although this sounds pretty cool it's a massively flawed theory as it doesn't really relate to boxing. Get one of your friends to hold a grocery bag and punch through it. Get another grocery bag which is the same material but double the thickness and throw a punch, the extra thickness will be irrelevant because of the force of the punch and your fist will go through just as easy.

As Lilrip said big core exercises like squats, deadlifts etc. will be so much more beneficial.
first off, with the 2 grocery bags, simple physics will tell you that there is a diffrence of impact reguardless if you punch through the bag. it takes more force to rip 2 bags then to rip 1, thus you lose more force in your punch ripping 2 bags then 1.

secondly, when you build the muscles with core exercieses, the thickness does increase but in relation to the muscle size. so its like having a small sandwhich bag thats the same thickness as a large grocery bag. the sandwhich bags going to be able to take more impact.

and lastly, all your realy saying is, doing nothing but punching yourself in the stomach isnt as usefull as doing nothing but core exercises.

this is ****ing obivious and a retarted point to repeatly make, if all your doing is punching your mid section, you deserve to waste your time.

any one training to be a boxer is allready doing **** tons of core exercises long before they start abusing their midsection. shadow boxing running hitting the bag sparring, all of these do an incredibly job of exercising your core, so even with out squats deadlifts and that stupid **** your allready doing an excelent job of toughning up your midsection.

do you grasp this?
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#29
Old 05-16-2012, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
first off, with the 2 grocery bags, simple physics will tell you that there is a diffrence of impact reguardless if you punch through the bag. it takes more force to rip 2 bags then to rip 1, thus you lose more force in your punch ripping 2 bags then 1.
You're right, I'm not arguing that. But the difference of impact in this case would be irrelevant compared to the force of a punch.

Quote:
secondly, when you build the muscles with core exercieses, the thickness does increase but in relation to the muscle size. so its like having a small sandwhich bag thats the same thickness as a large grocery bag. the sandwhich bags going to be able to take more impact.
You're right again, and this is why you shouldn't be worrying about hitting yourself in the stomach and working more on muscle building exercises.

Quote:
and lastly, all your realy saying is, doing nothing but punching yourself in the stomach isnt as usefull as doing nothing but core exercises.

this is ****ing obivious and a retarted point to repeatly make, if all your doing is punching your mid section, you deserve to waste your time.
You're a bit of the mark on this one, I'm also claiming you could do yourself damage by repeatedly taking unnecessary blows to the stomach.

Quote:
any one training to be a boxer is allready doing **** tons of core exercises long before they start abusing their midsection. shadow boxing running hitting the bag sparring, all of these do an incredibly job of exercising your core, so even with out squats deadlifts and that stupid **** your allready doing an excelent job of toughning up your midsection.

do you grasp this?
I agree that people are already 'working' their core doing these exercises but not necessarily building it, exercises such as shadow boxing, running etc. aren't going to have the same effect as say 5x5 front squats will have.


I do grasp what you're getting at and I'm not trying to be a dick here, I just think this type of train does much more harm than good and trying to offer my advice which is up to yourself to take or leave
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#30
Old 05-16-2012, 08:06 AM
Spartacus Sully
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Originally Posted by Sam Sexton View Post
You're right, I'm not arguing that. But the difference of impact in this case would be irrelevant compared to the force of a punch.



You're right again, and this is why you shouldn't be worrying about hitting yourself in the stomach and working more on muscle building exercises.



You're a bit of the mark on this one, I'm also claiming you could do yourself damage by repeatedly taking unnecessary blows to the stomach.



I agree that people are already 'working' their core doing these exercises but not necessarily building it, exercises such as shadow boxing, running etc. aren't going to have the same effect as say 5x5 front squats will have.


I do grasp what you're getting at and I'm not trying to be a dick here, I just think this type of train does much more harm than good and trying to offer my advice which is up to yourself to take or leave
your right for a boxer shadow boxing running ect are much better then a 5*5 set.
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