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#11
Old 04-30-2012, 04:15 AM
Capaedia
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I think it's Johnson, and somewhat easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Japanese Boxing View Post
Marciano clearly in my opinion. He showed the ability to come back when he absolutely needed to and he has better names on the resume. Yes, as stated they were older but the names on the resume matter. I also think Rocky's skills were extremely underrated and I take their skill sets into account.
Dubious qualification since Johnson never really needed to come back. He had an undefeated streak longer than Marciano's entire career.

Also Johnson himself was very skilled (Fleischer had him as defensively the best heavyweight ever). He was ahead of his time. Which is a lot more than you can say for Marciano, underrated skills or not.
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#12
Old 04-30-2012, 04:51 AM
Spartacus Sully
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
I think it's Johnson, and somewhat easily.



Dubious qualification since Johnson never really needed to come back. He had an undefeated streak longer than Marciano's entire career.

Also Johnson himself was very skilled (Fleischer had him as defensively the best heavyweight ever). He was ahead of his time. Which is a lot more than you can say for Marciano, underrated skills or not.
the guy whos main stance was that of the old masters which had been around for decades was clearly ahead of his time.

as far as the topic, i pick marciano.
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#13
Old 04-30-2012, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
the guy whos main stance was that of the old masters which had been around for decades was clearly ahead of his time.

as far as the topic, i pick marciano.
No need to be sarcastic. Johnson's defense, footwork and spoiling were far from commonplace at that stage.
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#14
Old 04-30-2012, 08:01 AM
Spartacus Sully
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Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
No need to be sarcastic. Johnson's defense, footwork and spoiling were far from commonplace at that stage.
for people weighing over 210 lbs, it was rare but existed.

while at the lighter weights (including cruiser) it was and had been common place for decades.

his defense? parrying blocking and smothering? thats all stuff from 1600 when a fencing instructor decided to open a boxing school and incorporate much of fencing into it.

Last edited by Spartacus Sully; 04-30-2012 at 08:04 AM.
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#15
Old 04-30-2012, 09:23 AM
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I would say Johnson,Although I am some what biased
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#16
Old 04-30-2012, 12:29 PM
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I'd like Rocky in this match up but I do believe that Jack could be a problem. I look strictly at their styles not their competition because great and good fighters will win & lose against one another if matched often enough. Jacks step overs could cause problems for Rocky and Jack was not a light handed fighter so Rock couldn't move in without giving Jack respect. If Jack doesn't use his laterial step off and strictly leans away he'll be in trouble with Rocky because Rock will be happy to take his body and that will make Jack stand up and possibly be stationary and that favors the Rock.
Rocky has been in with excellant movers as far as step overs and laterial motion and he knows how to cut the ring and set traps. Jack knows how to bait fighters in then step off and he is not a single punch thrown fighter like many were back in the day. Most of Jacks opponents stood in front of him and tried to exchange with him punch for punch he was way ahead of the stylists back then thats how and why he was so successfull. He was an inovator like Gans and Jeanette' and had methods with alot of techniques that his opponents had no idea how to deal with.
This could be a multi-match series that could be a great competition. Atleast if your gonna dream about something make it good!! Ray.
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#17
Old 05-04-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
I think it's Johnson, and somewhat easily.



Dubious qualification since Johnson never really needed to come back. He had an undefeated streak longer than Marciano's entire career.

Also Johnson himself was very skilled (Fleischer had him as defensively the best heavyweight ever). He was ahead of his time. Which is a lot more than you can say for Marciano, underrated skills or not.
Care to elaborate? If you look over their best wins...

Older Walcottx2>Pre-prime Jeanette
Older Charlesx2>teenage McVea
Archie Moore>any of the guys Johnson beat under 185lbs
Older Louis>ancient Jeffries

and LaStarzax2(1 disputed), ****ell, Layne, and Vingo were all fairly decent wins over guys pretty respected at the time, and probably match up to any other notable wins Johnson has.

"Ahead of his time" means nothing to me honestly. I look at everyone in an equal light, regardless of what time period they fought in.
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#18
Old 05-05-2012, 11:18 AM
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Probably Marciano's.
Marciano for me, he was usually the smaller guy,, and well you know where I'm goin with this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ P.S. ...... IMO
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#19
Old 05-05-2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Marciano for me, he was usually the smaller guy,, and well you know where I'm goin with this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ P.S. ...... IMO
Welcome back, mate.

It's been a while.
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#20
Old 05-05-2012, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
I'd like Rocky in this match up but I do believe that Jack could be a problem. I look strictly at their styles not their competition because great and good fighters will win & lose against one another if matched often enough. Jacks step overs could cause problems for Rocky and Jack was not a light handed fighter so Rock couldn't move in without giving Jack respect. If Jack doesn't use his laterial step off and strictly leans away he'll be in trouble with Rocky because Rock will be happy to take his body and that will make Jack stand up and possibly be stationary and that favors the Rock.
Rocky has been in with excellant movers as far as step overs and laterial motion and he knows how to cut the ring and set traps. Jack knows how to bait fighters in then step off and he is not a single punch thrown fighter like many were back in the day. Most of Jacks opponents stood in front of him and tried to exchange with him punch for punch he was way ahead of the stylists back then thats how and why he was so successfull. He was an inovator like Gans and Jeanette' and had methods with alot of techniques that his opponents had no idea how to deal with.
This could be a multi-match series that could be a great competition. Atleast if your gonna dream about something make it good!! Ray.
This is a pretty good post, and it got me thinking of a matchup that I would really love to see,, how convincing would Johnson be against Jersey Joe Walcott... now that Walcott really could move,, old guy or not,,, and like it or not,, a late 30's Walcott was as prime as dear old Joe ever got, I actually think Jersey Joe could maybe humiliate Johnson, I cant think of any of Johnsons opponents who could move like that. There you go...... I await my condemnations with a grin on my face.
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