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#11
Old 04-27-2012, 05:06 PM
titan m
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Originally Posted by 4CornersKid View Post
Marciano is an ATG HW no doubt, but H2H he'd get spanked by most ATG HW's.

He had some good wins though. He had some good timing though when his career came about, same as Lennox Lewis to a certain degree, though Lennox is better than Marciano. Rocky came on when Louis, Walcott, Charles were getting up there and near the end of their careers, and before Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston came along to be Top HW's. I think Rocky could have beaten Floyd Patterson, because Floyd had a glass jaw, but he very well could have been out boxed and possibly stopped on cuts by Floyd, who Ali said was the best "boxer" he ever faced.

Still, Rocky beat a past prime Joe Louis, a past prime Joe Walcott, a prime Roland La Starza, a past prime-still good Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore when Archie was still a top tier fighter. His wins over Moore and Charles were really really good wins, his wins over Louis and Walcott a little overrated for sure given they were way past it by those points. Still, Joe Louis was a Top 10 HW when Rocky fought him, as was Joe Walcott. And Archie Moore was the #1 HW contender in the world when Marciano beat him. Rocky was an ATG and had a solid resume, though he got started late obviously, but he isn't in the Top 5 based on career-resume-era, and H2H he's not in the Top 10 at HW.
People always **** on Marcianos win over Louis but the betting odds were in Louis favor, Louis was past his prime obviously but he was still favored to win at the time.
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#12
Old 04-27-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Oh you out son View Post
If Marciano were to fight Lennox Lewis or Ali or a Klitschko he would get destroyed so bad he would look like a bum bar fighter.
Ali didn't think the same way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDaw2QFC1Qg


First of all fighting it's not all about athleticism. The physical preparation is only a part of the game, boxing is also a mind game, a will game, a technical game, a toughness game.
Secondly a fighter like Marciano was much more trained than the majority of the modern HWs... just look at the embarassing phisical condition of guys like Arreola or Solis, or other guys who in the second half of their fights are without energy

Last edited by MotorCityJaguar; 04-27-2012 at 05:22 PM.
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#13
Old 04-27-2012, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by titan m View Post
People always **** on Marcianos win over Louis but the betting odds were in Louis favor, Louis was past his prime obviously but he was still favored to win at the time.
I still said even though Joe was clearly past his prime, diminishing the win a bit, Joe was still a Top 10 HW at the time. It was a good/solid win, not a really really good win or anything. It's like when Floyd fought Oscar De La Hoya. Oscar was past his prime, but he was still a Top SWW and had a title, it was a solid win on his resume.
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#14
Old 04-27-2012, 05:19 PM
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ATG Heavyweight, and one of my favorite fighters to watch fights of online.
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#15
Old 04-27-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 4CornersKid View Post
Marciano is an ATG HW no doubt, but H2H he'd get spanked by most ATG HW's.

He had some good wins though. He had some good timing though when his career came about, same as Lennox Lewis to a certain degree, though Lennox is better than Marciano. Rocky came on when Louis, Walcott, Charles were getting up there and near the end of their careers, and before Floyd Patterson and Sonny Liston came along to be Top HW's. I think Rocky could have beaten Floyd Patterson, because Floyd had a glass jaw, but he very well could have been out boxed and possibly stopped on cuts by Floyd, who Ali said was the best "boxer" he ever faced.

Still, Rocky beat a past prime Joe Louis, a past prime Joe Walcott, a prime Roland La Starza, a past prime-still good Ezzard Charles, and Archie Moore when Archie was still a top tier fighter. His wins over Moore and Charles were really really good wins, his wins over Louis and Walcott a little overrated for sure given they were way past it by those points. Still, Joe Louis was a Top 10 HW when Rocky fought him, as was Joe Walcott. And Archie Moore was the #1 HW contender in the world when Marciano beat him. Rocky was an ATG and had a solid resume, though he got started late obviously, but he isn't in the Top 5 based on career-resume-era, and H2H he's not in the Top 10 at HW.
This is what I believe; I don't mean to criticize but you have it all wrong. You seem not to know anything about boxing history, or the records of Marciano's opponents, and particularly their records and opponents. You'd have to be able to tie-in the information in a meaningful way. Let me give you just ONE example (there are many) ......

Let's look at Carmine Vingo, the fighter whom Marciano says was his toughest fight. Marciano was a very strong, solid 27 year old, Carmine Vingo, was not yet 20, approximate the same weight, but very tall and spindly 6'4", still undeveloped, a kid, more than half his 17 fights had a combined losing record of 45wins-100 losses. This was his 1st 10 rd fight, never had more than 6 rds all aginst palookas; it was Marciano's 12th 10 rd fight and 25th fight of which his record was 25-0 with 24 KO's. It was just another SET-UP.

It's obvious to anyone who can look critically at Marciano, and understand it. It shouldn't be difficult...... if not hampered by . "rose-coloured glasses".
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#16
Old 04-27-2012, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by titan m View Post
People always **** on Marcianos win over Louis but the betting odds were in Louis favor, Louis was past his prime obviously but he was still favored to win at the time.
That was because Marciano was so obviously a poor boxer, and had beaten nobody of a good level who wasn't well washed-up. The reason that Marcianos' fights against his "top" opponents were so hotly contested was because they had declined so much, making more even matchups. There are loads of examples. Two washed-up fighters who still have the moves are better to watch than 2 top fighters who's styles make a poor match.
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#17
Old 04-27-2012, 09:02 PM
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Pound for pound Rocky was great. He often weighed in the low 180s for his heavyweight fights. Heavyweights don't have to make weight so they weigh in well fed and hydrated and with some clothes on. He could easily have fought as a light heavyweight.
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#18
Old 04-29-2012, 05:35 PM
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Pound for pound Rocky was great. He often weighed in the low 180s for his heavyweight fights. Heavyweights don't have to make weight so they weigh in well fed and hydrated and with some clothes on. He could easily have fought as a light heavyweight.
In the past was common for the heavyweights to cut the weight
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#19
Old 04-29-2012, 05:46 PM
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Yes, and what I am about to say will get all these history and old-timer fanboys so pissed.

These fighters from Marciano and Joe Louis days would stand ZERO chance with the fighters of today. Even the **** heavyweight like Chisora, Arreola and other bums would have beaten these old guys. They barely trained compared to how people train these days, didn't know nearly as many strengthening techniques and everything else. In EVERY sport, the athletes are by far superior now to say 40-70 years ago. EVERY sport, yes that includes boxing. If Marciano were to fight Lennox Lewis or Ali or a Klitschko he would get destroyed so bad he would look like a bum bar fighter. Just look at those tapes LOL, so slow and brutal conditioning. These old guys are overrated as **** by nerd historians who dwell on the "good old days" when the fighters of today are wayyyy better.

Starting from the time of Ali onwards is when athletics hit major strides in training developments. Hell, after the fights those old guys would drink for a few weeks and have no nutritionists and then go fight again they would be slaughtered like lambs to new generation fighters.

How do you think Larry Bird stacks up to Lebron James in terms of ability on the court? LMAO


Barely trained?? Marciano ran 15 miles everyday, 20 as the fight got closer. Please... old HW's used to go more rounds and are way better conditioned than heavy weights of today. Heavy weights now days are slobs and they get gassed in like 5 rounds.

In 50 years the strengthening techniques and nutrition of today will be the stone age and youll be saying the same thing for that generation.
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#20
Old 04-29-2012, 05:50 PM
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Pound for pound Rocky was great. He often weighed in the low 180s for his heavyweight fights. Heavyweights don't have to make weight so they weigh in well fed and hydrated and with some clothes on. He could easily have fought as a light heavyweight.
he also had a very short reach for a HW
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