How much more Mayweather needs to do to be serious candidate for GOAT?

[Capaedia]

Originally Posted by wmute

You might want to add that the great Manny Pacquiao had just said that he was willing to get less than 50-50.

Or that the brave indomitable warrior has just turned down Cotto without a catchweight.

The list is long...

The more things I list, the more sources I may be asked for.

I just went with my favourites.

[New England]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Did a pretty good job of it in his biggest Middleweight wins:

Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Carl Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)

All of these were brutal.

and as you alluded to earlier, they took place after more fights in than most guys today will ever fight
and at middleweight.


i dont have any problems picturing robinson being more of a defensive specialist if he were brought up in today's boxing traditions. you'd have a hard time winning rounds fighting in 1950 with a completely defensive style similar to the ones you see today.

he had the speed. he had the timing.
he just wasnt thinking defense first all of the time. many of today's american boxers think defense almost exclusively. i blame in part the amateur point system, but that's another topic for another day.


and of course if you're 154 lbs and above you have 10 oz gloves to block shots with

[McGoorty]

Originally Posted by NChristo

We all know you like Darcy.

You don't need too be a great puncher to be up there with Robinson as is evident, just because you 'prefer' someone that can punch hard doesn't mean that you can't compare Greb's greatness to Robinson's, his resume is just as good as Robinson's, you could even argue Greb's resume is better / greater.

All I have tried to point out that is that a COMPLETE fighter has it all,,, including the ability to KO someone, if Greb was way behind on points in a matchup with Robinson, or anyone else for that matter the only way he's gonna win the fight is by a knockout, am I right, or am I just an idiot or a simpleton that WMute says I am ?....... Greb had a great record as did Robinson, as did Darcy.... by the way Mute, I hate wrestling, period, I prefer to wrestle with women.... But back to my point,, it is a fact that Harry was not a great puncher,, Ray was, and there is nothing that Harry could do that Ray couldn't,, plus I've only seen Greb in a sparring session on film and the difference between that guy in the film,, and SRR (or Darcy) is vast as far as technical skills go, maybe Harry nullified all those things by simply being far too overwhelming, and I believe the best form of defense is attack...... anyway, if Mute feels sorry for me, I couldn't give a rats.

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by McGoorty

All I have tried to point out that is that a COMPLETE fighter has it all,,, including the ability to KO someone, if Greb was way behind on points in a matchup with Robinson, or anyone else for that matter the only way he's gonna win the fight is by a knockout, am I right, or am I just an idiot or a simpleton that WMute says I am ?....... Greb had a great record as did Robinson, as did Darcy.... by the way Mute, I hate wrestling, period, I prefer to wrestle with women.... But back to my point,, it is a fact that Harry was not a great puncher,, Ray was, and there is nothing that Harry could do that Ray couldn't,, plus I've only seen Greb in a sparring session on film and the difference between that guy in the film,, and SRR (or Darcy) is vast as far as technical skills go, maybe Harry nullified all those things by simply being far too overwhelming, and I believe the best form of defense is attack...... anyway, if Mute feels sorry for me, I couldn't give a rats.

[McGoorty]

I did say the other day that I hold Greb high, but not as high as Robinson, and I believe Darcy was great and also that had he lived another ten years ALL OF YOU would rate him extremely high and I wouldnt have to defend the bloke here against some who have almost zero conception of even who he is,, he is like a phantom to most fans today,, but even with the 1% of knowledge most here have of him compared to the far greater knowledge of Greb and Robbo,,, they have to put forward an opinion of him,,, read up, study the films of him, then I may start paying more attention to his critics, of which he has more than his FAIR share..... for my part I have endeavoured to find out everything there is to know of him............ Does anyone ever take into account his incredible achievements for a fighter who had his last fight at age 20, through no fault of his own, its almost as if many american fans are relieved he died so young,, Boxing isnt just a US thing you know.

[McGoorty]

Originally Posted by Barnburner

Oh yes I should have pointed out the Barnburner prefers women too,,, as do all of you guys,,, yeah even my buddy Mute.... : )........ cheeky bugger, aint I.
: )

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by New England

and as you alluded to earlier, they took place after more fights in than most guys today will ever fight
and at middleweight.

Not to mention he was giving up a good number of years to a few of them where age was concerned in addition to the extra mileage on his body.

i dont have any problems picturing robinson being more of a defensive specialist if he were brought up in today's boxing traditions. you'd have a hard time winning rounds fighting in 1950 with a completely defensive style similar to the ones you see today.

he had the speed. he had the timing.
he just wasnt thinking defense first all of the time. many of today's american boxers think defense almost exclusively. i blame in part the amateur point system, but that's another topic for another day.

and of course if you're 154 lbs and above you have 10 oz gloves to block shots with

Great points, I agree.

[MrRolltide91]

Originally Posted by Faerun

1. Martinez @154
2. Pacquiao @147
3. Alvarez @154

If he fought and beat Martinez at 160 he'd have a legit claim at GOAT in my book.

he still wouldn't be the GOAT.

he wouldn't be top 10 of all-time.

[McGoorty]

Anyway, whatever happens Pacquiao will be ranked ahead of Mayweather by all serious judges, even if Mayweather ever beats him, obviously Mayweather is waiting and hoping for Pacquiao to fade to the point where Mayormaynot thinks he has a certain victory before accepting the fight, its just pure vanity stopping the fight from happening. Unless mayweather fights Pacquiao within next 12 months, I will never discuss Floyd again, there are just sooooooooooooo many other worthies worth talkin about, so until that day, I simply don't care because all the excuses and games Jr plays about the fight that'll never happen are pathetic. I will however be happy to discuss Manny Pacquiao in any other context, because he simply doesn't need the fight, but Mayweather does,.... over to you Floyd.

[Capaedia]

McGoorty were you watching events unfold between Mayweather and Pacquiao immediately after Marquez III?

Excuse after excuse and endless contradictions from the Pacquiao camp. At the very least, both camps are to blame.

Also I disagree that Mayweather needs Pacquiao. Mayweather has fought a number of good to great fighters and beaten all of them. Among those, Castillo I was the only fight that wasn't decisive.

In fact, I think there's an arguement for him being ahead of Pacquiao.