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#111
Old 05-07-2012, 12:08 PM
McGoorty
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Originally Posted by wmute View Post
Are you serious?
No mate of course not,, I thought I'd waste my breath by putting up my honest opinion. Did you not see Pacquiao destroy Cotto,, or did did you have your Floydyboy purple coloured glasses on. Mate get those glasses off and learn a bit about me, McGoorty before you say stuff like that. Instead of writing stuff like "you can't be serious (who are you ? John Mcenroe ?)",.. I didn't come down in the last shower. yes I was serious Johnny,, now get back to your seat next to newc, and call the Tennis,, or something.
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#112
Old 05-07-2012, 12:16 PM
McGoorty
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Originally Posted by Capaedia View Post
Why would Pacquiao have any more success with the taller, stronger, bigger, harder to hit counter-puncher than he did with Marquez?
He destroyed Cotto,, Mayweather had a tougher time of it, Marquez is a naturally smaller man I would say,, and pacquiao is even more naturally smaller than Marquez. Obviously styles make fights, JMM has done better against pac than any I can think of. but Cotto,, although way bigger than pac (talkin natural weight), was owned and brutalised by pacquiao, I say this without blinking, PacMans feats outshine Jrs and is pound for pound the better fighter,, and still why does mayweather avoid him ?
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#113
Old 05-07-2012, 12:23 PM
McGoorty
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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
Not to mention Ray was already past it. Sometimes I weigh if he was better off staying retired after the Maxim "loss" without incurring so many losses even if past-prime, but I dont know if you can trade it for picking up wins against Olson (two more anyway), Fullmer and Basilio. From my perspective, I'm damn glad he did comeback to get those on film! The way he disposes of Olson in III and IV, the left hook he drops on Fullmer and the wars with Basilio are noteworthy moments of his career.
The two fights with Basilio are fantastic,, and I still wonder if the results were the wrong way around,, I find the 2nd fight really hard to score and its natural that with Basilios badly damaged eye it sure looks like he lost, but there was an enormous amount of of puches landed by both guys,,, the results could easily have been Ray winning the first and Basilio the 2nd instead of the other way around,, but in the end 1 all is a very fair outcome. I really loved the way that Basilio always seemed to get stronger as a fight wore on. The only fighter I ever saw that dominated Basilio in a big way was Fullmer, oh man that fight really makes me wince.
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#114
Old 05-07-2012, 12:43 PM
NChristo
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
No I'm not implying that, just that Darcy had a serious dose of TNT in both hands, as for who is greater ?. unfair comparison, Darcy's last fight was at age 20. Darcy had he lived would probably have fought around 299 fights like Harry did. A Greb V Darcy fight around 1921 would have been one of the classics, 20 rounds of pure fury, and not much chance of a stoppage. when Darcy had his last fight Greb was still on the way up. The point I'm making about SRR is that there was nothing lacking in his armoury. Please understand that Greb is one of my favourites as well and yes a dynamite punch is not the be all and end all, but certainly I prefer Darcy,, a combination of iron chin/dynamite on both hands/skills/stamina/speed of hand and foot sure makes for an exciting fighter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Darcy ?,, yes his early death may leave some questions in some minds, and the biggest question is how a Darcy V Greb fight would have turned out. Many decades have now passed, so I cant be sure especially since no film of a Greb fight exists, but Jack Doc Kearns certainly was a bit of an expert on fighters and had seen Greb, Darcy, Klaus, ketchel, Walker, Flowers, McGoorty, Clabby, Gibbons, Papke in action by the early 30's when he stated that in his opinion Les Darcy was the best Middleweight he ever saw, (he trained Walker so one would have expected Jack to have favoured Walker, but according to Kearns, walker wasnt a chance in that match-up). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boxing history is basically stats and opinions and great books and film,, nothing more.
We all know you like Darcy.

You don't need too be a great puncher to be up there with Robinson as is evident, just because you 'prefer' someone that can punch hard doesn't mean that you can't compare Greb's greatness to Robinson's, his resume is just as good as Robinson's, you could even argue Greb's resume is better / greater.
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I know they are highly popular and deserve to be. BUT, seriously theres no way Greb for instance was comparable, for a start he wasnt the complete fighter like Ray,

Last edited by NChristo; 05-07-2012 at 12:48 PM.
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#115
Old 05-07-2012, 12:59 PM
wmute
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
No mate of course not,, I thought I'd waste my breath by putting up my honest opinion. Did you not see Pacquiao destroy Cotto,, or did did you have your Floydyboy purple coloured glasses on. Mate get those glasses off and learn a bit about me, McGoorty before you say stuff like that. Instead of writing stuff like "you can't be serious (who are you ? John Mcenroe ?)",.. I didn't come down in the last shower. yes I was serious Johnny,, now get back to your seat next to newc, and call the Tennis,, or something.
I really thought you were joking. I am sorry for you, I can suggest you watch professional wrestling or circus instead of boxing. Seems more in tune with your love for power punchers.

Last edited by wmute; 05-07-2012 at 01:01 PM.
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#116
Old 05-07-2012, 03:10 PM
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Mayweather ?... well judging by the common opponent he has with Pacquiao, Miguel Cotto, I think Pacquiao is way better than Mayweather,, and I can now see why Floyd wants to avoid Pacquiao..... So Floyd, you either fight Pacman within the year or forever be ranked behind him, no more excuses are acceptable.
Like I said in the other thread, you can't judge who is better of common opponents. You said it yourself, styles make fights.

In 1974, George Foreman and Muhammad Ali had two common opponents; Ali lost to Norton and Fraizer, Foreman destroyed them both in two rounds. Who's better?

Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquaio are around the same level. Hell, there's an argument that Mayweather is greater IMO.
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#117
Old 05-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron View Post
Ever seen Robinson fight?

I honestly don't see how he has come to be known primarily as this grand, elegant boxer. Dancer, my ass. Guy was a savage. Sure, He circled the ring with fluidity and balance and possessed a quick, accurate jab, but used it to set up and unload an array of power blows, effectively choosing his spots and ripping off multiple shots to the body and head at the drop of a dime. Had so much speed and power, could punch and hurt you wading in-and-out, going forward or backwards, with a cast iron chin of his own. Best combination puncher I've ever seen -- that includes Louis, Tyson, Leonard, et al. This is based primarily on '50s Middleweight material, when Robinson was over 30 years old and no longer at his peak or even his most dominant weight class. Crazy.

Comparing his record to anybody not named Greb, Langford, Charles, Armstrong is almost a certain joke as well.


fuck yeah

why dance when you've got a chin of stone and you might be the best offensive fighter ever?
dig in and take somebody's head off.

joe louis
ray robinson
no order. two bonafide killers.
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#118
Old 05-07-2012, 10:57 PM
Hands of Iron
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
fuck yeah

why dance when you've got a chin of stone and you might be the best offensive fighter ever?
dig in and take somebody's head off.

joe louis
ray robinson
no order. two bonafide killers.
Did a pretty good job of it in his biggest Middleweight wins:

Jake LaMotta (TKO 13)
Randy Turpin (TKO 10)
Rocky Graziano (KO 3)
Carl Olson (UD 15) (KO 2) (KO 4)
Gene Fullmer (KO 5)
Carmen Basilio (SD 15)

All of these were brutal.
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#119
Old 05-08-2012, 12:01 AM
Capaedia
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
He destroyed Cotto,, Mayweather had a tougher time of it, Marquez is a naturally smaller man I would say,, and pacquiao is even more naturally smaller than Marquez. Obviously styles make fights, JMM has done better against pac than any I can think of. but Cotto,, although way bigger than pac (talkin natural weight), was owned and brutalised by pacquiao, I say this without blinking, PacMans feats outshine Jrs and is pound for pound the better fighter,, and still why does mayweather avoid him ?
That Cotto was coming off a brutal beating with loaded wraps, into a bad style match-up. Cotto is always going to do better against boxers. He doesn't have the stamina to hold up against a pressure fighter like Margarito or Pacquiao.

Also you can't just lay the blame for the fight not happening on Mayweather. Both camps have ****ed the fight up. Bob Arum wanted to delay it until a date he pretended he didn't know Mayweather would be in prison, he wanted to build a new stadium, "Pacquiao had a cut that was too deep after Marquez III". Pacquiao walked away from the table in 2009 over drug testing when it was 50:50 split.

After all that (and a goddamn lawsuit) Mayweather doesn't want to give him 50:50. Go figure.
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#120
Old 05-08-2012, 05:12 AM
wmute
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That Cotto was coming off a brutal beating with loaded wraps, into a bad style match-up. Cotto is always going to do better against boxers. He doesn't have the stamina to hold up against a pressure fighter like Margarito or Pacquiao.

Also you can't just lay the blame for the fight not happening on Mayweather. Both camps have ****ed the fight up. Bob Arum wanted to delay it until a date he pretended he didn't know Mayweather would be in prison, he wanted to build a new stadium, "Pacquiao had a cut that was too deep after Marquez III". Pacquiao walked away from the table in 2009 over drug testing when it was 50:50 split.

After all that (and a goddamn lawsuit) Mayweather doesn't want to give him 50:50. Go figure.
You might want to add that the great Manny Pacquiao had just said that he was willing to get less than 50-50.

Or that the brave indomitable warrior has just turned down Cotto without a catchweight.

The list is long...
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