How much more Mayweather needs to do to be serious candidate for GOAT?

[Ray Corso]

I can't see how anyone could consider Floyd the all time best out of ALL boxers past and present! He could go on for 10 more years but he could never change my opinion that theres fighters who fought in the same weight class that would defeat him and theirs others that are just as skilled and in fact better. He's a very talented young man and his mental toughness has improved dramaticly but he can't punch hard he prefers not to press and dominate, and he's not a great closer. Being able to counter move and punch is a very high skill but its not a method that I prefer over a fighters skill to dictate the entire fight, then try to end it with power!
To name a few that I believe would handle Mayweather and he would get stopped by some of these young men;
Sugarman
the Kid
Napoles
Harrington
Griffith
DiMarco
Leonard
Hearns
Duran (at welter or jr.ww, or especially lytweight)
Benetez vs Mayweather would be the cure for insomnia!! Floyd be dec.
theres a few more but what the hell that s just a few from 140 to 152. Ray.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Andyreww

Hah, no doubt Robinson is defintely up there with the best, I think alot of the older generation fighters get too much credit though, boxing is alot more tactical nowadays, instead of standing you punch me I punch you, In 50 years from now, they'll be saying the same about Floyd and the Fighter of that era.

Ever seen Robinson fight?

I honestly don't see how he has come to be known primarily as this grand, elegant boxer. Dancer, my ass. Guy was a savage. Sure, He circled the ring with fluidity and balance and possessed a quick, accurate jab, but used it to set up and unload an array of power blows, effectively choosing his spots and ripping off multiple shots to the body and head at the drop of a dime. Had so much speed and power, could punch and hurt you wading in-and-out, going forward or backwards, with a cast iron chin of his own. Best combination puncher I've ever seen -- that includes Louis, Tyson, Leonard, et al. This is based primarily on '50s Middleweight material, when Robinson was over 30 years old and no longer at his peak or even his most dominant weight class. Crazy.

Comparing his record to anybody not named Greb, Langford, Charles, Armstrong is almost a certain joke as well.

[Andyreww]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Ever seen Robinson fight?

I honestly don't see how he has come to be known primarily as this grand, elegant boxer. Dancer, my ass. Guy was a savage. Sure, He circled the ring with fluidity and balance and possessed a quick, accurate jab, but used it to set up and unload an array of power blows, effectively choosing his spots and ripping off multiple shots to the body and head at the drop of a dime. Had so much speed and power, could punch and hurt you wading in-and-out, going forward or backwards, with a cast iron chin of his own. Best combination puncher I've ever seen -- that includes Louis, Tyson, Leonard, et al. This is based primarily on '50s Middleweight material, when Robinson was over 30 years old and no longer at his peak or even his most dominant weight class. Crazy.

Comparing his record to anybody not named Greb, Langford, Charles, Armstrong is almost a certain joke as well.

Yup, I've seen him box, he's defintely one of the Greatest of all times, and his chin is legendary, but I've said it before, it's all good throwing combos at people who are willing to trade and go toe to toe with you, for me, a prime mayweather has too much body movement, slightly faster and his defense is alot better. I think he'd win but a close Split/UD decision

[res]

Originally Posted by Andyreww

Yup, I've seen him box, he's defintely one of the Greatest of all times, and his chin is legendary, but I've said it before, it's all good throwing combos at people who are willing to trade and go toe to toe with you, for me, a prime mayweather has too much body movement, slightly faster and his defense is alot better. I think he'd win but a close Split/UD decision

I think Ray would hit whatever he could hit, and keep hitting it until it broke.

15 rounds and I definitely give it to Ray. 10 rounds would give Mayweather a chance.

[Hands of Iron]

The match-up is too silly to entertain honestly. Mayweather was at his best south of 140 lbs IMO so it speaks well for his own greatness and ability that he's been successful at 147/154. Robinson would encounter the same difficulty finding Floyd's chin, but when he's ripping shots to the body in bunches and often, it is going to hurt much more than anybody Floyd has faced, not to mention they will be coming in much faster. Floyd does not have the power at 147 to bother him with his counter rights and Robinson wasn't short in the reflexes department himself. He doesn't need Floyd to go toe-to-toe to out-jab and out-work him, or even stop him. Of course if it came to blows he'd steam roll him in devastating fashion.

[res]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

The match-up is too silly to entertain honestly. Mayweather was at his best south of 140 lbs IMO so it speaks well for his own greatness and ability that he's been successful at 147/154. Robinson would encounter the same difficulty finding Floyd's chin, but when he's ripping shots to the body in bunches and often, it is going to hurt much more than anybody Floyd has faced, not to mention they will be coming in much faster. Floyd does not have the power at 147 to bother him with his counter rights and Robinson wasn't short in the reflexes department himself. He doesn't need Floyd to go toe-to-toe to out-jab and out-work him, or even stop him. Of course if it came to blows he'd steam roll him in devastating fashion.

Yeah I agree, I give Floyd atleast a chance in a 10 round fight but I still favor Ray. I think Floyd has no chance in a 15 round bout.

[McGoorty]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Ever seen Robinson fight?

I honestly don't see how he has come to be known primarily as this grand, elegant boxer. Dancer, my ass. Guy was a savage. Sure, He circled the ring with fluidity and balance and possessed a quick, accurate jab, but used it to set up and unload an array of power blows, effectively choosing his spots and ripping off multiple shots to the body and head at the drop of a dime. Had so much speed and power, could punch and hurt you wading in-and-out, going forward or backwards, with a cast iron chin of his own. Best combination puncher I've ever seen -- that includes Louis, Tyson, Leonard, et al. This is based primarily on '50s Middleweight material, when Robinson was over 30 years old and no longer at his peak or even his most dominant weight class. Crazy.

Comparing his record to anybody not named Greb, Langford, Charles, Armstrong is almost a certain joke as well.

I dont even rate those guys as a legit comparison to Ray Robinson, I know they are highly popular and deserve to be. BUT, seriously theres no way Greb for instance was comparable, for a start he wasnt the complete fighter like Ray,, SRR had a dynamite punch... Greb was NOT a puncher compared to the likes of SRR or Les Darcy for that matter,,, I could go on about the others too, but hey I just woke up,, see ya'll in a few hours lol

[McGoorty]

Originally Posted by res

Yeah I agree, I give Floyd atleast a chance in a 10 round fight but I still favor Ray. I think Floyd has no chance in a 15 round bout.

I hate the fact that title fights are only 12 rounds and in my opinion has wrecked title fights ever since and has created a new type of fighter,, something akin to the 10 round ND experts that were in the US a long time ago, I am sick to death of watching the likes of mayweather cruising through fights and not really taking any risks,,,, I wish we still had 20 round fights, they would have been true wars.......... No cruising for 20 rounds, that would have been impossible.

[NChristo]

Originally Posted by McGoorty

I dont even rate those guys as a legit comparison to Ray Robinson, I know they are highly popular and deserve to be. BUT, seriously theres no way Greb for instance was comparable, for a start he wasnt the complete fighter like Ray,, SRR had a dynamite punch... Greb was NOT a puncher compared to the likes of SRR or Les Darcy for that matter,,, I could go on about the others too, but hey I just woke up,, see ya'll in a few hours lol

Are you trying to imply that Darcy is greater then Greb ?.
You don't need to be a 'dynamite' puncher to be up there by the way, e.g Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong.

[McGoorty]

Originally Posted by NChristo

Are you trying to imply that Darcy is greater then Greb ?.
You don't need to be a 'dynamite' puncher to be up there by the way, e.g Willie Pep and Henry Armstrong.

No I'm not implying that, just that Darcy had a serious dose of TNT in both hands, as for who is greater ?. unfair comparison, Darcy's last fight was at age 20. Darcy had he lived would probably have fought around 299 fights like Harry did. A Greb V Darcy fight around 1921 would have been one of the classics, 20 rounds of pure fury, and not much chance of a stoppage. when Darcy had his last fight Greb was still on the way up. The point I'm making about SRR is that there was nothing lacking in his armoury. Please understand that Greb is one of my favourites as well and yes a dynamite punch is not the be all and end all, but certainly I prefer Darcy,, a combination of iron chin/dynamite on both hands/skills/stamina/speed of hand and foot sure makes for an exciting fighter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Darcy ?,, yes his early death may leave some questions in some minds, and the biggest question is how a Darcy V Greb fight would have turned out. Many decades have now passed, so I cant be sure especially since no film of a Greb fight exists, but Jack Doc Kearns certainly was a bit of an expert on fighters and had seen Greb, Darcy, Klaus, ketchel, Walker, Flowers, McGoorty, Clabby, Gibbons, Papke in action by the early 30's when he stated that in his opinion Les Darcy was the best Middleweight he ever saw, (he trained Walker so one would have expected Jack to have favoured Walker, but according to Kearns, walker wasnt a chance in that match-up). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Boxing history is basically stats and opinions and great books and film,, nothing more.