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#1
Old 04-20-2012, 08:47 AM
Nagabilly
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Default Lamotta and the sad condition of Benitez

Anyone else find it very odd that Benitez, one of the greatest defensive fighters, hardly got hit clean, but now suffers an incurable brain damage. While Jake 'The Raging Bull' Lamotta, with the punishment he took in his 100+ fights, is 90, healthy, and is clear minded enough to still give interviews?
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#2
Old 04-20-2012, 09:16 AM
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I think that Benitez had some issues to begin with. And he got hit enough. LaMotta was a much better defensive fighter than given credit for- most of those guys are-and took a lot of shots of his shoulders. He and Basilio often joked about how nobody could possibly have survived all the punches they are thought to have been hit with.
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#3
Old 04-20-2012, 09:44 AM
Sugarj
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What we have to remember is that the brain is a revoltingly complex organ. It is amazing that it can......in some cases, survive literally tens of thousands of punches over a boxing career and show little perceivable sign of impairment. George Chuvalo is another guy who is very sharp considering the punches he absorbed.

Some people can suffer brain damage and die as a result of a one punch street attack. Others can survive without noticeable symptons into old age.

I suppose its not so much a question of whether its 'odd' as opposed to sheer luck as to how a different brain responds to different punishment.
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#4
Old 04-20-2012, 10:20 AM
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Maybe it has to do with him going pro at 16 and 2 months.
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#5
Old 04-20-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PulpFriction View Post
Maybe it has to do with him going pro at 16 and 2 months.
Again, it doesn't matter when you start taking or finish taking punches. A 16 year old brain can be injured with one punch the same way that a 50 year old brain can.

Mike Tyson was absorbing heavy blows as a 13 year old and still at near 40, but he seems no less articulate than he did back in the early 80s. George Foreman is another example.

It really is down to luck. Brain damage isn't like a gauge on a computer game, it can happen suddenly (Spencer Oliver, Paul Ingle), it can slowly manifest itself over time (Muhammed Ali, Terry Norris), it can lead to memory issues, motor problems, gland/hormone regulation, personality issues.
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#6
Old 04-20-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
Again, it doesn't matter when you start taking or finish taking punches. A 16 year old brain can be injured with one punch the same way that a 50 year old brain can.

Mike Tyson was absorbing heavy blows as a 13 year old and still at near 40, but he seems no less articulate than he did back in the early 80s. George Foreman is another example.

It really is down to luck. Brain damage isn't like a gauge on a computer game, it can happen suddenly (Spencer Oliver, Paul Ingle), it can slowly manifest itself over time (Muhammed Ali, Terry Norris), it can lead to memory issues, motor problems, gland/hormone regulation, personality issues.
No, that's not really true. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/e...986/story.html

Also, there are other variables that we don't know about besides punches taken in a fight. To name some, we don't know how dehydrated these fighters were after their fights, we don't know the amount of punches that were taken to the back of the head, and we don't know about the gym wars. If a guy gets concussed in the gym, do you really think he's gonna take enough time off?
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#7
Old 04-22-2012, 04:04 PM
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Its not just the hits theyve taken during their pro fights but also all of the sparring they have done that we havent seen.

Some guys like Toney had obvious bad speech even while they were young and even though he had good defense, which is probably down to gym wars or bad luck / bad genetics.

Sometimes though it does seem to be clear that it accelerated near the end of their career, someone like jones whose speech has been getting worse only at the tail end of his career here where he used to be fine. Who knows what would have happened but it atleast looks like he would have been better off if he retired after the first tarver loss.
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#8
Old 04-22-2012, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal Buck View Post
No, that's not really true. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/e...986/story.html

Also, there are other variables that we don't know about besides punches taken in a fight. To name some, we don't know how dehydrated these fighters were after their fights, we don't know the amount of punches that were taken to the back of the head, and we don't know about the gym wars. If a guy gets concussed in the gym, do you really think he's gonna take enough time off?
I think thats the thing too with boxing compared to say football where there are more people around to monitor for concussion symptoms. If someone gets buzzed in training they are more liable to keep at it and when have we even heard of someone cancelling a pro fight due to a concussion during training? There is too much pressure to make the fight, its probably happened a lot more times than we know about, versus football where the team will still play on and the game will still happen. And the studies theyve done with NFL players show a lot of damage from head hits with memory problems ect. I remember reading an article a few years ago and they were saying a lot of the retired NFL guys in their 40s were having brain scans that looked like 70 year old Alzheimers patients.
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#9
Old 04-22-2012, 04:30 PM
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Willie Pep and Nicolino Locche also suffered from pugilistic dementia. James Toney slurs his words. It's really all about the individual makeup and the types of blows being taken. If brain damage were just about the number of blows taken then LaMotta would have been dead by age 25.
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#10
Old 04-22-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal Buck View Post
No, that's not really true. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/e...986/story.html

Also, there are other variables that we don't know about besides punches taken in a fight. To name some, we don't know how dehydrated these fighters were after their fights, we don't know the amount of punches that were taken to the back of the head, and we don't know about the gym wars. If a guy gets concussed in the gym, do you really think he's gonna take enough time off?

Interesting article. The findings seem to indicate that youngsters are more affected by concussions than those who are older.

I think that one thing we need to bear in mind is that the brain is affected in many ways by absorbing head punches. Not everything relates to concussions and lack of recovery from.......

Anyone can be given a fatal brain bleed from the wrong head punch. Parkinson's syndrome in boxers has been suggested to be linked to absorbing blows to the back of the head which can cause damage to the upper spinal connection.
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