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#21
Old 04-05-2012, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
Tbh, I wonder how someone like Armstrong would do against a prime Ricky Hatton or even a Margarito in a pressure vs. pressure matchup.



Cuz' judging from the tape, Armstrong is not what he is made out to be.


he's not some fleet boxer
an explosive puncher
huge
etc


he was a 126 -135 lber fighting fw's, lw's, and WW's, who eventually racked up 18 wins defending the lineal world ww title



he's reguarly reguarded as having one of the best gas tanks ever in boxing
he had a bonafide great chin
underrated abilities to slip punches and take their steam away
he holds the record for stoppages in defenses of the WW title as well. he knocked everybody out, despite not being a one punch type puncher.


he's not some eye catching boxer in the tradtions of a roy jones or an early period ali. what he was was incredibly effective


i dont think i have to tell you this but they guy defended the WW, lw and FW championships of the world simultaneously.



sometimes it's not the traditional trappings of a boxer that make him great (speed, power, size,) but the ones that get appreciated less (his chin, his gas tank, his will,)


the guy found a way to accomplish all the things he did in boxing, when there was one title, and boxing was the most popular sport in the country other than baseball



so no
margarito beating him?
ricky hatton beating him?

no and no
and an lol for good measure.


you say he's so intept against slick boxers (and there were very few if any around then. that style didnt win you fights on the scorecards,) yet you've matched him with a punching bag and a mauler


now, do i think armstrong is beating ray leonard?
nope. but ray leonard is one of the best WW ever h2h.


i'd pick armstrong to roll right on through WW today, having issues with only floyd mayweather, who is himself a bit larger than armstrong and an atg.
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#22
Old 04-05-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

Barney Ross. Ross was an excellent technician who moved, countered, gave angles and was defensively sound. The problem against Armstrong was Hank was non stop pressure from the opening bell never giving Ross any breathing room let alone a chance to breath at all. After the 3rd round Ross told his corner he had no more legs. After that he was cannon fodder for the perpetual motion that was Armstrong.

You can say it was Ross' last fight and he was finished after a long hard career, but that wouldn't be entirely accurate. Barney had said on many occasions that the first time he took a beating in the ring would be his last and retired at the tender age of 28. Less than a year earlier Ross was able to beat Ceferino Garcia who had two close bouts with Armstrong less than 2 years later.

I doubt you're going to find anyone to fit the Marquez/Mayweather description to a T, but fighters like Ross, Chalky Write and Lou Ambers were excellent technicians in their own right. What makes Armstrong so great though was his ability to force an opponent to fight his fight. Neither Floyd nor JMM have fought anyone like Armstrong either. If they had is there any guarantee they could adjust to his style? Not bend to his will?
Came to say Barney Ross. Seemingly you've covered and very well.

The first answer that springs to mind is Barney Ross. Such a skilled figher.

He wasn't a slick fighter like Gavilan or Pep or people of that matter but he was a great great counterpuncher. Could sit in the pocket and counter you to death. Such an underrated fighter. A Top 25 ATG in my book.
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#23
Old 04-05-2012, 03:56 PM
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Tbh, I wonder how someone like Armstrong would do against a prime Ricky Hatton or even a Margarito in a pressure vs. pressure matchup.



Cuz' judging from the tape, Armstrong is not what he is made out to be.
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#24
Old 04-05-2012, 03:59 PM
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Ricky Hatton vs Armstrong???? Henry would be arrested for murder!! The difference in power and drive is extreme between the two, compared to Henry Hatton can't break an egg! Ray.
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#25
Old 04-05-2012, 04:08 PM
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Willie Pep.

Are you saying he ducked Willie Pep?

Pep won the NYSAC FW title from Wright in 1942, Armstrong challenged for the World Middleweight title 2 years earlier.
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#26
Old 04-05-2012, 04:19 PM
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Ive seen the same tapes you guys have. A guy burying his head in the other guys shoulder and pounding away.

The only problem is that all his opponents are content to stand there with him the whole time. Its not a stretch to have current guys beating him. Hatton was a rugged guy with speed and power and Margarito was a punching machine.

Compared to some of those guys on the tapes, like Garcia, either guy would be live.

Seems like the dead guys get more credit than they deserve on this forum simply because they're old and dead.
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#27
Old 04-05-2012, 06:19 PM
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Ive seen the same tapes you guys have. A guy burying his head in the other guys shoulder and pounding away.

The only problem is that all his opponents are content to stand there with him the whole time. Its not a stretch to have current guys beating him. Hatton was a rugged guy with speed and power and Margarito was a punching machine.

Compared to some of those guys on the tapes, like Garcia, either guy would be live.

Seems like the dead guys get more credit than they deserve on this forum simply because they're old and dead.
Your question was answered, though.

You asked if Armstrong had ever fought a great boxer. He has. Barney Ross for instance, fit's that description.

He may not have fought a slick fighter, they're weren't a great amount of slick fighters available to Armstrong back then. For whatever reason.

You compare Ricky Hatton and Antonio Margarito to Henry Armstrong which is of course, a laughable statement. Look at the level of competition Armstrong beat compared to those two combined.

It's nothing to do with him being old, nor dead. And as great as Armstrong was, it doesn't mean he could beat every current or modern day fighter.

But, he has one of the greatest resume's of all time. Your notion that he "hand-picked opponents" is pretty stupid. Considered he was the Champion in 3 weight classes, at the same time. Pretty difficult to hand pick your way to that.

If he hand picked fighters then who should he have fought instead? In your opinion?

Armstrong get's the respect he does because of what he achieved. For his accomplishments. Which he has in abundance.

Last edited by IronDanHamza; 04-05-2012 at 06:31 PM.
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#28
Old 04-05-2012, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
Ive seen the same tapes you guys have. A guy burying his head in the other guys shoulder and pounding away.

The only problem is that all his opponents are content to stand there with him the whole time. Its not a stretch to have current guys beating him. Hatton was a rugged guy with speed and power and Margarito was a punching machine.

Compared to some of those guys on the tapes, like Garcia, either guy would be live.

Seems like the dead guys get more credit than they deserve on this forum simply because they're old and dead.
Armstrong fought plenty of great fighters and world class fighters, I highly doubt any were "content" to stand in front of him. Their game plan changed because Armstrong forced it to. Ross was trying to move against Hank, only to be continuously pounded to the head and body. I saw you say in another post he looked old. He was 28 and had shown himself to be in top form less than a year earlier against Garcia.

The reason guys like Armstrong get so much credit is because they fought and beat every style, other ATG's and the best from their era.

How would Floyd and JMM, in your opinion, do against Armstrong and how would they do it if it were 15 rounds set in 1938?
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:52 PM
Toney Loc
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Your question was answered, though.

You asked if Armstrong had ever fought a great boxer. He has. Barney Ross for instance, fit's that description.

He may not have fought a slick fighter, they're weren't a great amount of slick fighters available to Armstrong back then. For whatever reason.

You compare Ricky Hatton and Antonio Margarito to Henry Armstrong which is of course, a laughable statement. Look at the level of competition Armstrong beat compared to those two combined.

It's nothing to do with him being old, nor dead. And as great as Armstrong was, it doesn't mean he could beat every current or modern day fighter.

But, he has one of the greatest resume's of all time. Your notion that he "hand-picked opponents" is pretty stupid. Considered he was the Champion in 3 weight classes, at the same time. Pretty difficult to hand pick your way to that.

If he hand picked fighters then who should he have fought instead? In your opinion?

Armstrong get's the respect he does because of what he achieved. For his accomplishments. Which he has in abundance.
You can win titles in multiple divisions and still fight cherrypicked opponents that play into your style.

If there were great boxers back then, his managers weren't interested in putting him in with them. From the film, I could see why.

Its not as mind boggling as you think to have so many wins either. Chavez Sr. has about the same amount but you'd be hard pressed to find anything but bums. Its called padding your record.

Watching Ross I didn't get the impression he was a great boxer. Having technical ability doesn't equal great boxer.
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Old 04-05-2012, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
You can win titles in multiple divisions and still fight cherrypicked opponents that play into your style.

If there were great boxers back then, his managers weren't interested in putting him in with them. From the film, I could see why.

Its not as mind boggling as you think to have so many wins either. Chavez Sr. has about the same amount but you'd be hard pressed to find anything but bums. Its called padding your record.

Watching Ross I didn't get the impression he was a great boxer. Having technical ability doesn't equal great boxer.
You can't win the only belt in the division cherry picking opponents.
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