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#1
Old 04-04-2012, 08:56 PM
Toney Loc
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Default Did Hank Armstrong ever go up against a great boxer?

Judging from the tapes I've seen of him, its been all guys that came at him and stood with him.

Did he ever face any opponents that resembled a Floyd Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez counter punching moving specialist?

Someone considered a great contemporary in that style.

I've tried looking but haven't found anyone. Its very possible he was just matched properly by his promoter/managers to make him look better than he really was.

Prove me wrong.
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#2
Old 04-04-2012, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
Judging from the tapes I've seen of him, its been all guys that came at him and stood with him.

Did he ever face any opponents that resembled a Floyd Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez counter punching moving specialist?

Someone considered a great contemporary in that style.

I've tried looking but haven't found anyone. Its very possible he was just matched properly by his promoter/managers to make him look better than he really was.

Prove me wrong.
I remember watching the films and thinking the same thing, then breifly went through all of them and couldn't find any actual footage of him against a boxer, although he did fight a fair few boxers, I don't think he fought anyone of the type of fighter you're looking for, ie: slick counterpuncher with excellent defense. However that can probably be put down to the fact that was quite an unpopular style for those days. Particularly as aggression was much more favoured.

He wasn't matched carefully, you can't really win 3 lineal titles and draw for a fourth being matched well to make you look good. There's just too many good names and I can't recall anyone he ducked.
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#3
Old 04-04-2012, 09:06 PM
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I was watching films of him and it reminded me of Arum's path with Pacquiao.

Keep him away from guys that could box, move and counter and match him with guys that walk right into his fire.

This makes a huge difference in his legacy imo.
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#4
Old 04-04-2012, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
I was watching films of him and it reminded me of Arum's path with Pacquiao.

Keep him away from guys that could box, move and counter and match him with guys that walk right into his fire.

This makes a huge difference in his legacy imo.
Who did he not fight that he should have done?

As I said he was the lineal champion in three divions and defended the lineal WW title 21 times.
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#5
Old 04-04-2012, 09:23 PM
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Slick boxer ie; runners then, and counter/punchers were NOT crowd favorites!! When your dealing in live gates and ONLY live gates the type of fighter like Mayfeather wouldn't be used unless he came off the ropes and fought. You could box and use laterial movement ala Willie Pep but you needed to step to your opponent and exchange. Live boxing shows only had a live gate for proceeds so the boring crap you see from some guys today would afford them a very short career!
As for Armstrong if you paid him he'd fight anybody.......and anything! Ray
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#6
Old 04-04-2012, 09:26 PM
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All I'm hearing is excuses from apologists.

I want results. I thought you guys knew about boxing history. This is why I came here to ask this question.

I don't wanna hear excuses, rhetoric, innuendo or nostalgia.

I want to know when Armstrong fought anyone who wouldn't stand right in front of him and go toe to toe.


So far, my gut instinct is being proven 100%.

But I'm a patient man.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
I remember watching the films and thinking the same thing, then breifly went through all of them and couldn't find any actual footage of him against a boxer, although he did fight a fair few boxers, I don't think he fought anyone of the type of fighter you're looking for, ie: slick counterpuncher with excellent defense. However that can probably be put down to the fact that was quite an unpopular style for those days. Particularly as aggression was much more favoured.

He wasn't matched carefully, you can't really win 3 lineal titles and draw for a fourth being matched well to make you look good. There's just too many good names and I can't recall anyone he ducked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Corso View Post
Slick boxer ie; runners then, and counter/punchers were NOT crowd favorites!! When your dealing in live gates and ONLY live gates the type of fighter like Mayfeather wouldn't be used unless he came off the ropes and fought. You could box and use laterial movement ala Willie Pep but you needed to step to your opponent and exchange. Live boxing shows only had a live gate for proceeds so the boring crap you see from some guys today would afford them a very short career!
As for Armstrong if you paid him he'd fight anybody.......and anything! Ray
Willie Pep.

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Old 04-05-2012, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Toney Loc View Post
Judging from the tapes I've seen of him, its been all guys that came at him and stood with him.

Did he ever face any opponents that resembled a Floyd Mayweather or Juan Manuel Marquez counter punching moving specialist?

Someone considered a great contemporary in that style.

I've tried looking but haven't found anyone. Its very possible he was just matched properly by his promoter/managers to make him look better than he really was.

Prove me wrong.

Barney Ross. Ross was an excellent technician who moved, countered, gave angles and was defensively sound. The problem against Armstrong was Hank was non stop pressure from the opening bell never giving Ross any breathing room let alone a chance to breath at all. After the 3rd round Ross told his corner he had no more legs. After that he was cannon fodder for the perpetual motion that was Armstrong.

You can say it was Ross' last fight and he was finished after a long hard career, but that wouldn't be entirely accurate. Barney had said on many occasions that the first time he took a beating in the ring would be his last and retired at the tender age of 28. Less than a year earlier Ross was able to beat Ceferino Garcia who had two close bouts with Armstrong less than 2 years later.

I doubt you're going to find anyone to fit the Marquez/Mayweather description to a T, but fighters like Ross, Chalky Write and Lou Ambers were excellent technicians in their own right. What makes Armstrong so great though was his ability to force an opponent to fight his fight. Neither Floyd nor JMM have fought anyone like Armstrong either. If they had is there any guarantee they could adjust to his style? Not bend to his will?
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:22 AM
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What the fck is this sh1t? Apparently TS has never heard of Barney Ross or Lou Ambers
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:00 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

Barney Ross. Ross was an excellent technician who moved, countered, gave angles and was defensively sound. The problem against Armstrong was Hank was non stop pressure from the opening bell never giving Ross any breathing room let alone a chance to breath at all. After the 3rd round Ross told his corner he had no more legs. After that he was cannon fodder for the perpetual motion that was Armstrong.

You can say it was Ross' last fight and he was finished after a long hard career, but that wouldn't be entirely accurate. Barney had said on many occasions that the first time he took a beating in the ring would be his last and retired at the tender age of 28. Less than a year earlier Ross was able to beat Ceferino Garcia who had two close bouts with Armstrong less than 2 years later.

I doubt you're going to find anyone to fit the Marquez/Mayweather description to a T, but fighters like Ross, Chalky Write and Lou Ambers were excellent technicians in their own right. What makes Armstrong so great though was his ability to force an opponent to fight his fight. Neither Floyd nor JMM have fought anyone like Armstrong either. If they had is there any guarantee they could adjust to his style? Not bend to his will?

JMM did...

that fight he had with juan diaz... you are correct... it will be difficult to get cutesy and slick if you are dealing with a barelling, non stop punching machine like juan diaz. marquez had to "fight" him to get the W...

luckily for JMM though, diaz as good as he is... is no armstrong...
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