Martinez can fight Pac at 150, but can't fight Kirkland at 154???? - Page 5

Dirk Diggler UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27

Did Lou Dibella say anything about Anne Wolfe during his interview? No.

His reason was "He won't fight Kirkland unless it's at 160 lb's.". Which is what we're talking about now. That's straight up shady.

If Dibella said, "we'll fight Kirkland at 154, but Anne Wolfe said Kirk's not ready", I would understand what you're saying and agree. For all we know, Dibella probably never even heard that interview from Wolfe.

But we're talking about agreeing to fight Pac at 150, but has to fight Kirkland at 160.

That completely baffles me.

If it baffles you then you baffled me.

DoktorSleepless · 02:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Own3d

Since Kirklands comeback he has had 5 fights at MW and 1 at JMW.

Interesting point. You know what's funny? Looking at Kirkland's record, he's only had seven fights at 154. After leaving welterweight, most of his fights have been 156 and 158 catchweights. He even has several above 160.

I don't get what the big deal is.

Dan-O-Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27

How much do you think he got paid for fighting Macklin and Barker? Money wasn't an issue then was it?

Hell, that was a fight on HBO. He fights Kirkland and that's possibly PPV = more money.

Money being the issue is BS. Even if he fights Chavez Jr, Martinez has no negotiation leverage whatsoever. He would get paid what Chavez Jr wants him to get paid.

Money being the motivation has no part in this at all.

Red = wrong.

Dirk Diggler UK

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27

Sure I do.

But in all honesty Dirk, at this point in my life, I'm tired of the flip flops.

I understand Sergio called out Pac/Mayweather. Hell, I even agreed that Pac/Mayweather should fight him at 154. But if he can't get the fight, move on.

Don't sit up here and act like fighting Barker and Macklin at 160 is better than fighting Kirkland at 154. Forget those titles. Hell, if we're talking about titles, Martinez should've fought Sturm. But instead, Martinez fought Macklin because most felt Macklin beat Sturm. Kudos to Martinez for doing the right thing. But what he's doing now is like taking 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

Here's how I see it. Kirkland is a better fighter than Macklin and Barker. Just because he lost to Ishida, I feel like everyone's using that as an excuse to not even give the man a chance. So what he's not some cash cow.

Do you think Mayweather and Pac have always been cash cow's their entire career? No, someone gave them an opportunity and they made the best of it.

Kirkland has the type of fight style to be a star. All he needs is a chance. This BS about Martinez can't fight Mayweather/Pac, so it's ok for him to fight Barker, Macklin and Cotto, but not ok to fight Kirkland is BS.

If Floyd or Pac did it, I would say the same exact thing.

Martinez didn't fight Sturm because Sturm has no interest in fighting in the US again or fighting anyone good really.

I dont really rate Kirkland but I think its a better match-up than Macklin or Barker. But the point is that Kirkland has nothing at 154 to make Sergio have to move down for him. Cotto,Mayweather and Pacquaio obviously bring motivation to move down.

intoccabile

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27

WTF is going on in boxing right now????

Everytime I log in, things are getting worse and worse in the boxing world.

Martinez has no problem's fighting Pac at 150, but must fight Kirkland at 160????

Lace em up and do what you're paid to do.

Thoughts?

You missed the point. They said they wouldn't come down to fight kirkland, probably because kirkland isn't a big enough fight to make the cut worthwhile.

BoxingGenius27

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Originally Posted by Roman Moreno

Can't give you an exact figure. But, more than he would make with Kirkland don't you agree? Kirkland is the better fight. But, Chavez is the better draw. Chavez for weak ass fights brings in not only good ratings but a damn good gate. His fight with Rubio it was a million dollar gate. And, lots of fans.

Plus it would be a weight where Martinez is more comfortable in. For all this talk that Martinez is a small MW. Which is true he is also a comfortable MW. At 154 he might have to struggle to make. And, I think he wants the reward(money) for that struggle.

It's very lame but I think he would go to 154 for Cotto if he beats Floyd and Canelo.

Here's the thing Jro.

Martinez has the opportunity to become his own cash cow and make his own name instead of piggy backing on other fighters with a following.

For example, Kirkland vs Angulo wasn't on PPV for their first fight. By the time it was said and done, fans were screaming for those two to go at it again. Some even offered to pay to see it on PPV.

Kirkland has a "fan friendly" style. If Kirkland and Martinez have fireworks, don't you think the public will ask to see Martinez again? Now, instead of trying to piggy back off other fighter's accomplishments/fan base, he's making a name for himself now.

It's very possible that by the time this fight is made, Kirkland might even be champ. Then you would have Martinez vs Kirkland for the title at 154. But it sounds like Dibella won't entertain that thought, because they want Kirkland at 160. I'm ready to say f uck Martinez and let him price/bargain himself out, so he can turn into another Winky Wright.

Martinez has no leverage at all. I don't care how many belts he has. He should be taking every competitive fight he can get his hands on right now to increase his fight stock; not turn down other fights because he didn't get what he wanted in Pac/May. If they want to go that route, I say let him turn into another Winky Wright. He'll look up and he'll have nothing.

Anyway, back on the weight topic. Dibella just said that Martinez had to eat steak and potatoes all camp to come in at 157...... 157......

DoktorSleepless

Quote:

It's very possible that by the time this fight is made, Kirkland might even be champ. Then you would have Martinez vs Kirkland for the title at 154. But it sounds like Dibella won't entertain that thought, because they want Kirkland at 160. I'm ready to say f uck Martinez and let him price/bargain himself out, so he can turn into another Winky Wrigh

I can't remember where the video is at, but after the Macklin fight, Dibella said they could fight at 154 and then said something like "If kirkland has the balls, they'll fight at middleweight" and even mentioned a 155 catchweight.

Again, I still don't understand why this is an issue eitherway. Kirkland would be happy to fight at 160 and not have to drain himself. Kirkland is already a bigger guy than Martinez. He could just come back to 154 if he doesn't want to stay at 160.

Roman Moreno

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27

Here's the thing Jro.

Martinez has the opportunity to become his own cash cow and make his own name instead of piggy backing on other fighters with a following.

For example, Kirkland vs Angulo wasn't on PPV for their first fight. By the time it was said and done, fans were screaming for those two to go at it again. Some even offered to pay to see it on PPV.

Kirkland has a "fan friendly" style. If Kirkland and Martinez have fireworks, don't you think the public will ask to see Martinez again? Now, instead of trying to piggy back off other fighter's accomplishments/fan base, he's making a name for himself now.

It's very possible that by the time this fight is made, Kirkland might even be champ. Then you would have Martinez vs Kirkland for the title at 154. But it sounds like Dibella won't entertain that thought, because they want Kirkland at 160. I'm ready to say f uck Martinez and let him price/bargain himself out, so he can turn into another Winky Wright.

Martinez has no leverage at all. I don't care how many belts he has. He should be taking every competitive fight he can get his hands on right now to increase his fight stock; not turn down other fights because he didn't get what he wanted in Pac/May. If they want to go that route, I say let him turn into another Winky Wright. He'll look up and he'll have nothing.

Anyway, back on the weight topic. Dibella just said that Martinez had to eat steak and potatoes all camp to come in at 157...... 157......

Martinez doesn't have time to make his name right now. He see's his age and wants that quick money that quick fame.

Also name a fighter who didn't have Gold Medal success and made a name for himself without piggy backing some one else? It's very hard, easier said than done.

Angulo-Kirkland II on PPV would have done terrible PPV numbers. So would Martinez-Kirkland II. Think about it. It would be very difficult for that fight to surpass Ward-Gatti, Marquez-Vazquez, Castillo-Corrales and neither of the rematch had a PPV. Because, it's not just a PPV fight. No matter how awesome the fight could be. It's just not PPV. Because, they just don't have the fan base. Now it can end up on a PPV if both fighters command big money. But, it just won't sell well.

I don't care what Lou says, he contradicts himself just as much as anyone.

BoxingGenius27

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoccabile

You missed the point. They said they wouldn't come down to fight kirkland, probably because kirkland isn't a big enough fight to make the cut worthwhile.

What cut? Martinez had to eat steak and potatoes to weigh in at 157.

The only reason Martinez went up to 160 in the first place was because he couldn't get fights at 154.

If the only fighter Martinez would fight is Cotto at 154, then that officially makes Martinez a Middleweight. If that's the case, I don't want to hear complaining about "Martinez is so small at middleweight. He had to eat steak and potatoes to weigh 157".

BoxingGenius27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler UK

Martinez didn't fight Sturm because Sturm has no interest in fighting in the US again or fighting anyone good really.

I dont really rate Kirkland but I think its a better match-up than Macklin or Barker. But the point is that Kirkland has nothing at 154 to make Sergio have to move down for him. Cotto,Mayweather and Pacquaio obviously bring motivation to move down.

Great, so Martinez should take on all comer's at 160, correct?

I'd love to hear how Pirog/Golovkin is a so much bigger fight in the US than Kirkland.

Is it because of the possible title?