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#1
Old 01-22-2012, 04:03 PM
Barn
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Default Lightweight Resumes. Carlos Ortiz.

After winning the LWW title, Ortiz eventually lost the title to Duilio Loi and moved down in weight to try his hand at Lightweight.

After moving down to LW Ortiz was already ranked at #2 by the ring for his work in the JWW division (due to the fact JWW wasn't really an established division so they stuck him in with the LW). He proved he was worth something here by beating #5 contender Douglas Vaillant. He then beat the former challenger and former number 1 contender who was unsuccessful against current champion Joe Brown, Paolo Rosi.

Ortiz' defeat of Rosi earned himself a shot at Brown. Ortiz defeated Brown for the WBA Title in an excellent win.

For anyone who doesn't know much about Joe Brown. He was a classic boxer puncher and a Hall of Famer who had an excellent reign defending his lineal title 11 times.

Ortiz' first defence came against a Top 10 contender in Teruo Kosaka which he won by stoppage. He then went on to defeat top 10 contender Arthur Persley in a non title bout.

In his second defence against number 3 contender from Cuba Douglas Vaillant the vacant WBC title was also on the line. Ortiz won this bout in 13 rounds. Granting him both titles making him the Undisputed champion of the Lightweight class.

After a 2 non title bouts he was back fighting for the title against ATG Flash Elorde who was the current SFW Champ. Ortiz won this bout by stoppage.

Instead of participating in a non-title match Oritz defended the title again against Kenny Lane who was the number 1 contender and had fought in a losing effort to Joe Brown. Ortiz won but, this time only by decision. Contrary to when he had stopped Lane as JWW Champion.

Ortiz then faced Ismael Laguna and lost by MD to the Number 1 challenger. This left Ortiz without any belts. However Ortiz won a clear Unanimous decision in the return bout to regain his belts against the Hall of Famer. An interesting fact about these bouts is the first was referred by Jersey Joe Walcott and the second by Rocky Marciano! His next bout was a draw with Nicolino Locche who was the number 1 contender for the JWW belt and Ortiz weighed in at JWW.

He then defended against the Number 1 Super Feathweight contender Johnny Bizarro won via 12 round stoppage.

His next defence came against Hall of Famer Sugar Ramos, Who was Feathweight champion before being displaced by Salvadir. Ortiz won this bout by TKO in 5 and the WBC declared that an instant rematch take place because of the referee favouring Ortiz. And get this! As if Ortiz hadn't had enough famous referee's the one under scrutiny here was Billy Conn!

Ortiz defended his WBA title against Flash Elorde. The WBC refusing to have their belt up for grabs due to Ortiz not rematching Ramos. It had been 2 years since their first contest but, Elorde was still the SFW Champ! This bout ended the same way. Via stoppage in the 14th round. After this bout, Elorde would lose the Super Featherweight belts he had kept for so long.

Ortiz then won his rematch against Ramos using the same means one round earlier by TKO in 4.

His next challenge was the man who took his LW title from him previously and had worked his way to number 1 again after being knocked down to number 5 as a result of losing the title to Ortiz in the return.
Ortiz won the fight against the HOF, putting him 2-1 up in their series.

However, all great title runs must come to an end and Ortiz did via split decision at the hands of the number 1 contender Carlos "Teo" Cruz.

He would try to come back and got himself a match with my guy Mr Buchanan. But, at 36 was too old and his quickness had faded too much. Ortiz ended up surrendering on his stool to the disappointment of his cornermen, marking the end of a great career.

All in all a very good reign in the Lightweight stakes. Defeating good contenders and a handful of HOF on multiple occasions.

To summarise:

Won the title vs Old Bones Joe Brown (LW Champ and HOF.)
Defence vs Teruo Kosaka.
Defence of WBA title and won Vacant WBC Title vs Douglas Vaillant.
Defence of Titles v Flash Erolde (SFW Champ, HOF.)
Defence of Titles vs Kenny Lane.
Loses title to Ismael Laguna (LW Champ, HOF.)
Wins titles back against Ismael Laguna. (LW Champ, HOF.)
Defends against Johnny Bizarro.
Defends against Sugar Ramos. (FW Champ, HOF.)
Defends against v Flash Erolde (SFW Champ, HOF.)
Defends against Sugar Ramos. (FW Champ, HOF.)
Defends against Ismael Laguna (LW Champ, HOF.)
Loses to Carlos "Teo" Cruz. (LW Champ.)

9 defences of Undisputed LW Championship. (Forget the 2nd Elorde fight I'm still classing it as undisputed.)

Notable wins:
Joe Brown (Great LW Champ, HOF)
Flash Erolde X2 (Great SFW Champ, HOF.)
Sugar Ramos X2 (FW Champ, HOF)
Ismael Laguna x2 (LW CHamp, HOF)

Stay tuned for Joe Gans and Roberto Duran!

Last edited by Barn; 01-22-2012 at 04:08 PM.
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#2
Old 01-22-2012, 04:14 PM
IronDanHamza
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Did you not count the Loi win and the alleged Locche robbery because they were above 135?

It's difficult because as you stated the 140 Division was hardly an established divison at that point. And the majority of those 'Jr Welterweight's' were actually ranked at Lightweight.

Other notable wins that weren't mentioned; Kenny Lane x2, Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Johnny Busso.

Stacked resume.
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#3
Old 01-22-2012, 04:19 PM
Barn
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Did you not count the Loi win and the alleged Locche robbery because they were above 135?

It's difficult because as you stated the 140 Division was hardly an established divison at that point. And the majority of those 'Jr Welterweight's' were actually ranked at Lightweight.

Other notable wins that weren't mentioned; Kenny Lane x2, Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Johnny Busso.

Stacked resume.
Yeah I tried to keep it to LW's but, it's a hard one as they JWW sort of became important about that time. Same reason I didn't include his JWW title victories in the notable wins section.

However I'll probably edit it in somewhere tomorrow.
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:40 PM
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Ridiculously stacked resume,cheers for the summary,looking forward to the next two
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by NChristo View Post
Denied Jose Napoles a shot at the title , or at least his team did.
When? Didn't know that!

Last edited by Barn; 01-22-2012 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Jabs gonna be pissin himself if he can see my failure at using emoticons :lol1:
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:11 PM
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When? Didn't know that!
Look at their careers, 63/64 ?, Napoles should of got a shot at Ortiz but instead it took him 8 years and a move up in weight too finally get one.

Doesn't really take anything away from Ortiz though obviously, don't get many resumes as stacked as that, especially in a single weight / reign.

Should of at least fought each other, what a fight it could of been.
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Old 01-23-2012, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Did you not count the Loi win and the alleged Locche robbery because they were above 135?

It's difficult because as you stated the 140 Division was hardly an established divison at that point. And the majority of those 'Jr Welterweight's' were actually ranked at Lightweight.

Other notable wins that weren't mentioned; Kenny Lane x2, Dave Charnley, Battling Torres, Johnny Busso.

Stacked resume.
Yep, those above (Lane, Charnley) were very good, especially Lane. Typical example of a multiple titlist in today's world.

Nonetheless, I think Ortiz often gets underrated. It always goes hand in hand with dominance, skill shown against other ATGs etc, but in terms of both of those Ortiz ranks very highly. He showed tremendous skill against great, great fighters. Not always as much as some others, but he also fought and beat so many great champions.

I have always felt he deserved more ranking than Tito in PR terms and to be higher on the Lw list of ATGs. I rank him right up there among Duran, Leonard and Gans. Even Whitaker doesn't compare when it comes to accomplishments and resume at LW. Does not compare.
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Old 01-23-2012, 02:03 PM
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Yep, those above (Lane, Charnley) were very good, especially Lane. Typical example of a multiple titlist in today's world.

Nonetheless, I think Ortiz often gets underrated. It always goes hand in hand with dominance, skill shown against other ATGs etc, but in terms of both of those Ortiz ranks very highly. He showed tremendous skill against great, great fighters. Not always as much as some others, but he also fought and beat so many great champions.

I have always felt he deserved more ranking than Tito in PR terms and to be higher on the Lw list of ATGs. I rank him right up there among Duran, Leonard and Gans. Even Whitaker doesn't compare when it comes to accomplishments and resume at LW. Does not compare.
Ortiz ticks every box, skills, H2H match ups, resume, everything. He's definitely up there with the most underrated.

No doubt should he be higher than Trinidad. Different leagues in terms of greatness. He's the greatest Puerto Rican fighter of all time as far as I'm concerned. I also agree he should be higher on the ATG list and the Lightweight list.

The only fighter I personally feel has a better resume than Ortiz at Lightweight is Benny Leonard. I have Ortiz ranked at #2. I made a thread a whole ago about Ortiz having an argument to be the greatest Lightweight ever.

In all honesty, if we're to go off solely resume I think he's quite clearly above Duran at Lightweight.. As the same applies as you said for Whitaker but to a more clearer extent.

A lot of people tend to say Whitaker above Ortiz but I can't understand how you can possibly think that using logic and reason unless you inlclude skills and H2H ability.
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:19 AM
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Saw Ortiz beat our Dave Charnley before he was world champion, in fact I think they closed Harringay with that fight. I've seen worse fighters than Charnley win a title too.
Ike Williams might be worth a look too BB another great LW?
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Old 01-24-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by GJC View Post
Saw Ortiz beat our Dave Charnley before he was world champion, in fact I think they closed Harringay with that fight. I've seen worse fighters than Charnley win a title too.
Ike Williams might be worth a look too BB another great LW?
Yeah, I'm focussing on the main 4 just now but if people want me to I'll look into doing more.
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