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#171
Old 11-25-2012, 05:52 PM
slicksouthpaw16
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Originally Posted by radioraheem View Post
Sometimes I wonder what kind of definition people have for the word 'prime.' It seems as though once an undefeated fighter or any fighter with a winning streak, gets beaten, he is no longer 'prime.' I guess Andre Berto was no longer 'prime' after he got beaten by Ortiz. If Pacquaio loses next month, he's also no longer 'prime.' Amir Khan is no longer 'prime' too. If Sergio Martinez loses his next fight, he too is no longer 'prime.' Ortiz is no longer in his 'prime' anymore too. Sigh...
Fam, being prime (in my definition at least) is what Miguel Cotto was when he fought Gomez and Mosley. That was his psychical peak. Just because you lose doesn't mean you are past your prime (Ray after Duran, Louis after Schmelling, Tarver after Harding ect) The plaster azz whooping that he took from Margarito ended what ever prime he had left. It wasn't the fact that he loss, it was the severity of the beating he took and his durability (or lack of) that he had afterwards. After Margarito, some of his punch resistance left, he faded quicker and his skin was much more sensitive. That Margarito beating cheated a good fighter out of his prime. And the Pac beating tact on a few more years to his already fading boxing career. Floyd fought him after all of this, and tried to sell the fight on the basis that Miguel was fighting at a comfortable weight. He needs to realize that Miguel was so far from his best that it didn't even matter.
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#172
Old 11-25-2012, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16 View Post
Both of you explain this to me. Why is Floyd allowed to have a belt at 154 and not fight Martinez who says that hes willing to fight at the weight and is accustomed to fighting at 154 LBs. Literally what is stopping this fight from happening? Fans talk about this fight way more than they talked about the Ortiz or Mosley fights by far. When asked in an interview if he would be interested in facing Martinez, Floyd responded by saying "Andre Dirrell can fight him". Wow!
Well Martinez lost to P Will in Dec. 2009. So the Mayweather fight couldn't happen in May 2010. Besides, Floyd had to fight Mosley. You and I both know that. That fight was in demand and had to happen. I agree, Mosley was old and a shell of himself but that's another story.

In late 2010, Martinez defeated Paul Williams. If I recall, that's when the hype around Martinez vs. Floyd started to buildup.

Problem is, Floyd would not step into the ring again until September 2011. So you expect him to jump two weight classes to fight an elite middleweight after a year and a half layoff? Ortiz was the best option available in his own weight class not including Pacquiao at that time.

The next choice would have been May 2012. If I recall, Martinez already had a fight scheduled in March against Macklin which took him out of the picture regardless.

I want to see him fight Martinez too but you can't accuse him of ducking a guy that fights at middleweight. Alvarez is the best fight for him at the moment, IMO.
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#173
Old 11-25-2012, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16 View Post
Fam, being prime (in my definition at least) is what Miguel Cotto was when he fought Gomez and Mosley. That was his psychical peak. Just because you lose doesn't mean you are past your prime (Ray after Duran, Louis after Schmelling, Tarver after Harding ect) The plaster azz whooping that he took from Margarito ended what ever prime he had left. It wasn't the fact that he loss, it was the severity of the beating he took and his durability (or lack of) that he had afterwards. After Margarito, some of his punch resistance left, he faded quicker and his skin was much more sensitive. That Margarito beating cheated a good fighter out of his prime. And the Pac beating tact on a few more years to his already fading boxing career. Floyd fought him after all of this, and tried to sell the fight on the basis that Miguel was fighting at a comfortable weight. He needs to realize that Miguel was so far from his best that it didn't even matter.
The thing is you are only one insignificant person friend. No one recognizes your version of the word prime.
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#174
Old 11-25-2012, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16 View Post
Fam, being prime (in my definition at least) is what Miguel Cotto was when he fought Gomez and Mosley. That was his psychical peak. Just because you lose doesn't mean you are past your prime (Ray after Duran, Louis after Schmelling, Tarver after Harding ect) The plaster azz whooping that he took from Margarito ended what ever prime he had left. It wasn't the fact that he loss, it was the severity of the beating he took and his durability (or lack of) that he had afterwards. After Margarito, some of his punch resistance left, he faded quicker and his skin was much more sensitive. That Margarito beating cheated a good fighter out of his prime. And the Pac beating tact on a few more years to his already fading boxing career. Floyd fought him after all of this, and tried to sell the fight on the basis that Miguel was fighting at a comfortable weight. He needs to realize that Miguel was so far from his best that it didn't even matter.

Well regardless of how bad you think Cotto is, Pac doesn’t agree and demanded a weight stipulation in order to fight him again.

Everyone knows Mayweather tried to fight Cotto when the fight was realistic as both where under Top Rank.
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#175
Old 11-25-2012, 06:03 PM
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ooth pr[QUOTE=WESS;12737691]In hindsight, yeah he looked old which makes Pac's selection to fight him even worse. Mosley was the WW Champion of the world WHEN Floyd fought him and that is what counts. Floyd tried to fight Mosley years ago and Mosley ducked him. Remember his toblem?

When Floyd fights young fighters people complain that they are not experienced enough. Don't get me wrong I wouldn’t mind seeing the Alvarez fight but that is no better than an Ortiz fight. Remember Ortiz was young and big too.

Ortiz's loss to Lopez makes the Floyd win much lesser than it already was. Alvarez is a bigger fighter, a champion at 154, is a much bigger money fight and style wise he poses a much tougher threat. This kid isn't face first like Ortiz was, he brings the kind of intangibles that we want to see Floyd against.


Quote:
Tell me this, If Martinez fights Floyd and looks old and slow will you then turn and say it was a crap fight that Floyd doesn’t take on young prime fighters etc?

You know that Martinez is getting older right? However he is the MW Champ but if Floyd makes him look bad you know people are going to sh*t on that fight too even though they were the ones calling for the fight beforehand. Much like many people did when it
I'm someone who has been a fan of Martinez since before he got on the scene and i remain a believer in him (just look at my username lol). With the style and skill that he has, it doesn't matter what age hes at, Floyd would get big credit from me for even taking a fight like that especially since i consider him to be a Hopkins type "late bloomer". He hasn't had tough fights early in his career and because of that, hes still in his 20's as far as boxing years are concerned. Again you're not chatting with a immature kid here, I'm just someone who wants to see good, big quality fights get made and will be happy. All i ask is that Floyd fights some real comp.

Last edited by slicksouthpaw16; 11-25-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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#176
Old 11-25-2012, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by slicksouthpaw16 View Post
Fam, being prime (in my definition at least) is what Miguel Cotto was when he fought Gomez and Mosley. That was his psychical peak. Just because you lose doesn't mean you are past your prime (Ray after Duran, Louis after Schmelling, Tarver after Harding ect) The plaster azz whooping that he took from Margarito ended what ever prime he had left. It wasn't the fact that he loss, it was the severity of the beating he took and his durability (or lack of) that he had afterwards. After Margarito, some of his punch resistance left, he faded quicker and his skin was much more sensitive. That Margarito beating cheated a good fighter out of his prime. And the Pac beating tact on a few more years to his already fading boxing career. Floyd fought him after all of this, and tried to sell the fight on the basis that Miguel was fighting at a comfortable weight. He needs to realize that Miguel was so far from his best that it didn't even matter.
I agree that the beating he took from Margarito was no joke, and then the beating from Pacquaio was also no joke. A bit too much. But even with that said, I think Cotto technically is a better fighter (because of his trainer) than he was when he first fought Margarito and Pacquaio. But yeah, physically, he is obviously not the same though.
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#177
Old 11-25-2012, 06:09 PM
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Ortiz's loss to Lopez makes the Floyd win much lesser than it already was. Alvarez is a bigger fighter, a champion at 154, is a much bigger money fight and style wise he poses a much tougher threat. This kid isn't face first like Ortiz was, he brings the kind of intangibles that we want to see Floyd against.


came to Mosley who Pac ducked.

I'm someone who has been a fan of Martinez since before he got on the scene and i remain a believer in him (just look at my username lol). With the style and skill that he has, it doesn't matter what age hes at, Floyd would get big credit from me for even taking a fight like that especially since a consider him to be a Hopkins type "late bloomer". He hasn't had tough fights early in his career and because of that, hes still in his 20's as far as boxing years are concerned. Again you're not chatting with a immature kid here, I'm just someone who wants to see good, big quality fights get made and will be happy. All i ask is that Floyd fights some real comp.
Same here but that is the problem. Unless he's fighting MW's, it is looked at as Floyd is not fighting anyone. As you stated, we hype someone beforehand like the WW Champion in Mosley but as soon as the fight happens we sh*t on it and now move to some other fighter he is scared of and is ducking.

The Pac fight will be the exact same. Which is why I believe Bob keeps the fight from happening. He knows just how bad Pac would look in that fight. It will ruin his marketability.

But hey we can talk all day about who Floyd should have fought but the problem is IF he had fought them, we would talking about someone else who he should have fought instead of the guy he did fight.

It is the same trend year after year.
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#178
Old 11-25-2012, 06:09 PM
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Well regardless of how bad you think Cotto is, Pac doesn’t agree and demanded a weight stipulation in order to fight him again.

Everyone knows Mayweather tried to fight Cotto when the fight was realistic as both where under Top Rank.
I don't care about Pacquaio fam, I'm talking about Floyd here. Hes who i want to fight tougher comp and show why many people think hes the best of this era. Manny is doing his own thing.
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#179
Old 11-25-2012, 06:13 PM
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I don't care about Pacquaio fam, I'm talking about Floyd here. Hes who i want to fight tougher comp and show why many people think hes the best of this era. Manny is doing his own thing.
The point is, Pac who is a professional fighter who already fought and beat Cotto thinks Cotto is so dangerous as a fighter that he personally needs a weight advantage in order to fight him. Pac thinks Cotto is so dangerous that he warned Mayweather about it.

Cotto is so dangerous to a professional fighter in pac, that pac walked away from fighting his #1 pick. I'm just using a professional fighters opinion about how Cotto is. A professional fighter who has beat him already but still wants an advantage in order to step in the ring with him.

Is Cotto at his peak? No but you can't ignore how pac feels about Cotto.
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#180
Old 11-25-2012, 06:14 PM
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