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#21
Old 01-10-2012, 01:17 PM
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it's not like the US has ever executed foreign spy's or even SUSPECTED spy's.
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#22
Old 01-10-2012, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
They're an enemy nation. It's not like Pakistan which is a nominal ally. They're openly and obviously hostile. You don't have to be in a position of declared war to be spying on an enemy nation.



Spies are not executed in the West and haven't been for decades.
Espionage is still a capital offense in the US. Possibly there haven't been notable incidents recently, but it is on the books.

Like I said, I feel bad for the guy on a human level. But things do happen. I'm not going to defend the Iranian government, so I'll just leave it at that.

We all know spying is going on. It isn't a secret that the US has a spy presence in Iran. You defend the US for having spies in an "enemy nation." Well, what should be done when a nation finds a spy from an enemy nation (in this case the country doing the finding is Iran, and the enemy nation is the US), particularly when it is well known that this enemy nation (the US) is conducting espionage operations in your country. Obviously the US and Iran are not on good terms, but it is the US which is a war mongering nation, not Iran. It is also the US which is potentially poised to strike on Iran, not the other way around (I don't think a strike is actually imminent, but it is no secret that it is being measured, and has been for some time). Yes the Iranian government is backward, but that doesn't make the US stance against Iran just. In reality, the US relations with Iran are as sour as they are because the US doesn't have the ability to exercise influence over Iran (and hasn't since 1979).
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#23
Old 01-10-2012, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuauhtémoc1502 View Post
And you think the Soviet Union didn't do some grimey sh1t? Or the Chinese? Now the Iranians?

Yes the U.S does what it can to stay ahead, that's the way the world works. I laugh when the U.S is targeted as this evil empire trying to suck the blood out of everyone, as if every civilization in the history of earth didn't do what's in it's own best interest.
like assassinating and overthrowing democratically elected presidents in other countries for capitalist interests or interests of specific corporations, etc.?

Like Salvador Allende on 9/11 (1973)? And then replacing him with a ruthless military dictator which resulted in the deaths and imprisonment of tens of thousands??

Gee, I wounder WHY people would think such bad things about the US/CIA!

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#24
Old 01-10-2012, 01:22 PM
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yeah because it's not being done to you
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#25
Old 01-10-2012, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
it's not like the US has ever executed foreign spy's or even SUSPECTED spy's.
Ummmm actually yes they certainly have.

This is probably the most famous example.



Quote:
Julius and Ethel Rosenberg (d 1953)

Julius Rosenberg was born on May 12, 1918, in New York. He graduated from the City College of New York with a degree in electrical engineering in 1939 and in 1940 joined the Army Signal Corps where he worked on radar equipment. He became a leader in the Young Communist League, where he met Ethel in 1936, before marrying her three years later.

Ethel Greenglass was born on September 28, 1915, in New York. She was an aspiring actress and singer, but eventually took a secretarial job at a shipping company. She became involved in labor disputes and joined the Young Communist League, where she first met Julius. The Rosenbergs had two sons, Robert and Michael.

In 1942, Julius and Ethel became full members in the American Communist Party. By 1943, however, the Rosenbergs dropped out of the Communist Party to pursue Julius's espionage activities. Early in 1945, Julius was fired from his job with the Signal Corps when his past membership in the Communist Party came to light. On June 17, 1950, Julius Rosenberg was arrested on suspicion of espionage after having been named by Sgt. David Greenglass, Ethel's younger brother and a former machinist at Los Alamos, who also confessed to passing secret information to the USSR through a courier, Harry Gold. On August 11, 1950, Ethel was arrested.

The trial against the Rosenbergs began on March 6, 1951. From the beginning, the trial attracted a high amount of media attention and generated a largely polarized response from observers, some of whom believed the Rosenbergs to be clearly guilty, and others who asserted their innocence.

The prosecution's primary witness, David Greenglass, stated that Ethel, working as a "probationer," had typed notes containing U.S. nuclear secrets, and these were later turned over to Harry Gold, who would then turn them over to Anatoly A. Yakovlev, the Soviet vice consul in New York City. Both Rosenbergs asserted their right under the Fifth Amendment not to incriminate themselves whenever asked about their involvement in the Communist Party of with its members.

The Rosenbergs were convicted on March 29, 1951, and sentenced to death under Section 2 of the Espionage Act. The couple were the only two American civilians to be executed for espionage-related activity during the Cold War. Judge Kaufman noted that he held them responsible not only for espionage but also for the deaths of the Korean War, since the information leaked to the Russians was believed to help them develop the A-bomb and stimulate Communist aggression in Korea. Their case has been at the center of the controversy over communism in the United States ever since.

The Rosenbergs stoically maintained their innocence throughout the length of the trial and appeals. They were executed by the electric chair on June 19, 1953.
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#26
Old 01-10-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodogoshi View Post
Ummmm actually yes they certainly have.

This is probably the most famous example.

yeah I know, it was sarcasm
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#27
Old 01-10-2012, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Nodogoshi View Post
Espionage is still a capital offense in the US. Possibly there haven't been notable incidents recently, but it is on the books.

Like I said, I feel bad for the guy on a human level. But things do happen. I'm not going to defend the Iranian government, so I'll just leave it at that.

We all know spying is going on. It isn't a secret that the US has a spy presence in Iran. You defend the US for having spies in an "enemy nation." Well, what should be done when a nation finds a spy from an enemy nation (in this case the country doing the finding is Iran, and the enemy nation is the US), particularly when it is well known that this enemy nation (the US) is conducting espionage operations in your country. Obviously the US and Iran are not on good terms, but it is the US which is a war mongering nation, not Iran. It is also the US which is potentially poised to strike on Iran, not the other way around (I don't think a strike is actually imminent, but it is no secret that it is being measured, and has been for some time). Yes the Iranian government is backward, but that doesn't make the US stance against Iran just. In reality, the US relations with Iran are as sour as they are because the US doesn't have the ability to exercise influence over Iran (and hasn't since 1979).
Iran is also broadly regarded as a warmongering nation. In fact their use of agents interfering in the sovereignty of other middle Eastern countries seems to be their MO.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:30 PM
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#29
Old 01-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Virgil Caine
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Iran is also broadly regarded as a warmongering nation. In fact their use of agents interfering in the sovereignty of other middle Eastern countries seems to be their MO.
Please enlighten me as to who they have bombed recently.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
like assassinating and overthrowing democratically elected presidents in other countries for capitalist interests or interests of specific corporations, etc.?

Like Salvador Allende on 9/11 (1973)? And then replacing him with a ruthless military dictator which resulted in the deaths and imprisonment of tens of thousands??

Gee, I wounder WHY people would think such bad things about the US/CIA!

You want to go back and forth as to which country has done the worst in the world? Really? hahaha

China killed millions of it's own, so did Russia under Stalin. I can name dictator after dictator that has invaded, killed, raped and done unimaginable things.

Please, save the "America is the devil" speech for someone else.

If Iran had the power America did, we would already be in a WWIII.
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