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#11
Old 01-02-2012, 08:04 AM
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You people are idiots. Anything to hate on Obama. That **** has happened in the UK for a while now. We don't give a ****.

Anyway your country ****s people up around the world. There is no need for the US to go around the world fighting wars and yes in these wars you kill innocent people and detain innocent people.
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#12
Old 01-02-2012, 10:45 AM
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http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=526066

I stated back in my thread on this .... this is no joke, this is serious *****!!!

Senate Passes Bill Allowing for Indefinite Detention of U.S. Citizens Without Trial or Attorney


U.S. Constitution: Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin

The Defense Authorization Act is the most Draconian, Orwellian, anti-Constitutional piece of legislation since the Patriot Act. Not only has this administration been the first in history to assassinate a U.S. citizen abroad without trial, but the Senate on Thursday passed the Defense Authorization Act that includes provisions to allow for the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without a trial or access to an attorney. Any U.S. citizen suspected of being a ‘terrorist’ could be detained by the military forever.

Citizens would not even have to be tried or convicted of anything, just suspected. This is giving up one of the most important foundations of our legal system – due process. Before you write off these concerns and think it would only apply to “the bad guys”, consider that some of the things that might qualify you as a suspected terrorist include having more than 7 days of food in your house, having multiple guns, weatherproof ammunition or missing fingers on your hand. I’m sure they could come up with any other justification needed at their discretion and simply make you disappear if they don’t like you.

The problem with this bill (and almost all bills that mention the word “terror”, “terrorist”, “terrorism”, or “war on terror”, like the misnamed Patriot Act) is that terrorism is a tactic, not a person or group of people. By a strict definition of “terrorism”, some tactics employed by the US army could classify them as a “terrorist organization”, but that’s not the point. Since “Terrorism” is a tactic, in order to call someone a “terrorist”, you need to give that person a fair trial and prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the person in question did in fact use terrorist tactics. Bills like this give the US Government the ability to skip that step and classify someone as a “terrorist” arbitrarily without a fair trial, which is no different than giving the Executive branch the power to call someone a murderer and execute them on the spot. Once you start going down that path, the potential for abuse is catastrophic! Section 1031 needs to be removed. (from Opencongress.org)

The legislation passed by a wide 93 to 7 margin. It was opposed by Senators Tom Coburn (R-Ok.), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), Mike Lee (R-Ut.), Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.), Ron Wyden (D-Ore.), Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Rand Paul (R-Ky.).

Fortunately, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), an opponent of the original language, amended the bill to clearly state that the intention of the bill was not to usurp existing U.S. law in regards to American citizens and legal aliens. It is not clear yet if this language will go far enough to protect U.S. citizens from this unconstitutional power grab.

Senator Feinstein likens the measure to former president Franklin Roosevelt’s ordering the incarceration of US citizens of Japanese descent during World War II.


http://www.goldstockbull.com/article...l-or-attorney/
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#13
Old 01-02-2012, 10:50 AM
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I welcome Martial Law......
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#14
Old 01-02-2012, 12:55 PM
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#15
Old 01-02-2012, 01:08 PM
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This is very concerning but not uexpected. Little by little there has been a progressive erosion of freedoms since 9 11 under the banner of protecting the people from terrorism.
This latest act is a clear indicator that some huge decline in the economic situation is just around the corner.So called trouble makers who will start an enough is enough movement will get banged up.
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#16
Old 01-02-2012, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Mongo View Post
This is very concerning but not uexpected. Little by little there has been a progressive erosion of freedoms since 9 11 under the banner of protecting the people from terrorism.
This latest act is a clear indicator that some huge decline in the economic situation is just around the corner.So called trouble makers who will start an enough is enough movement will get banged up.
Its refreshing, to see that not all are sound asleep ... Good post!!!!
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#17
Old 01-02-2012, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
- Benjamin Franklin
All you needed for extra security in Franklin's day was an extra musket and a brace of pistols. It's a nice soundbite but doesn't have the same impact in a world where one dirty bomb can kill fifty thousand people and render an entire city uninhabitable for a decade.
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#18
Old 01-02-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
All you needed for extra security in Franklin's day was an extra musket and a brace of pistols. It's a nice soundbite but doesn't have the same impact in a world where one dirty bomb can kill fifty thousand people and render an entire city uninhabitable for a decade.
While I don't dispute what you stated -- I do take exception with being denied "Due Process" if I should be suspected\accused of a contravening act. That is the bulk of my concern with this new law.

People can be accused of anything, the determining factor has always been, if the accusation can be proven without doubt. Removing the judicial process and its protections from the equation, is not only catastrophic to the fourth Amendment, but also the individual.
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#19
Old 01-02-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by arraamis View Post
While I don't dispute what you stated -- I do take exception with being denied "Due Process" if I should be suspected\accused of a contravening act. That is the bulk of my concern with this new law.

People can be accused of anything, the determining factor has always been, if the accusation can be proven without doubt. Removing the judicial process and its protections from the equation, is not only catastrophic to the fourth Amendment, but also the individual.
I don't understand why Americans who clearly despise their own country and their own people always try to classify themselves as patriots. Honestly you describe virtually the entire population as "sheep" and glorify the sad delusional paranoiac minority as being the only people who are "awake", you call your government corrupt, your corporations evil and your military brutal and then you say "I love my country, I do, THAT'S WHY I'M AGAINST EVERYTHING IT DOES!"

This new act is no different than the prevention of terrorism acts that have been in place in countries that have known domestic terrorism for DECADES. Places like Spain (Eta), Canada (Quebec separatists) and the UK (IRA) have robust anti-terror laws, not because of some plot for oligarchs to wrest control from the masses but out of a pragmatic necessity to protect its people from those who would do them harm.

You see the anti-terror laws in Britain actually go further than those being passed in the United States and in Britain and yet the US is ruled by a much tinier, much more exclusive set of privileged rich men than the UK has been since they started paying members of Parliament a salary.

You conspiretards need to realise that mass oppression in a brutal and physical kind almost always follows a revolution. I can't think of an example of a society that slowly builds up the oppression of its people, but I can think of plenty that imposed repression on a massive scale following a usually violent revolution. The people in charge of America like things the way they are. They don't need to change things, they already enjoy the maximum of privilege and power.

This notion of the US suddenly taking its cues from impoverished dictatorships like North Korea or Stalin's Russia is nothing more than frontier gun-nut fantasies writ large.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
I don't understand why Americans who clearly despise their own country and their own people always try to classify themselves as patriots. Honestly you describe virtually the entire population as "sheep" and glorify the sad delusional paranoiac minority as being the only people who are "awake", you call your government corrupt, your corporations evil and your military brutal and then you say "I love my country, I do, THAT'S WHY I'M AGAINST EVERYTHING IT DOES!"

This new act is no different than the prevention of terrorism acts that have been in place in countries that have known domestic terrorism for DECADES. Places like Spain (Eta), Canada (Quebec separatists) and the UK (IRA) have robust anti-terror laws, not because of some plot for oligarchs to wrest control from the masses but out of a pragmatic necessity to protect its people from those who would do them harm.

You see the anti-terror laws in Britain actually go further than those being passed in the United States and in Britain and yet the US is ruled by a much tinier, much more exclusive set of privileged rich men than the UK has been since they started paying members of Parliament a salary.

You conspiretards need to realise that mass oppression in a brutal and physical kind almost always follows a revolution. I can't think of an example of a society that slowly builds up the oppression of its people, but I can think of plenty that imposed repression on a massive scale following a usually violent revolution. The people in charge of America like things the way they are. They don't need to change things, they already enjoy the maximum of privilege and power.

This notion of the US suddenly taking its cues from impoverished dictatorships like North Korea or Stalin's Russia is nothing more than frontier gun-nut fantasies writ large.
So in a nut shell people are being paranoid?
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