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#1
Old 12-27-2011, 09:27 AM
D4thincarnation
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Default When is a fighter in their "Prime" and past their "Prime"?

Quote:
prime (prm)
adj.
1. First in excellence, quality, or value. See Usage Note at perfect.
2. First in degree or rank; chief. See Synonyms at chief.
3. First or early in time, order, or sequence; original.
4. Of the highest U.S. government grade of meat.
5. Mathematics Of, relating to, or being a prime number.
n.
1. The earliest hours of the day; dawn.
2. The first season of the year; spring.
3. The age of ideal physical perfection and intellectual vigor.
4. The period or phase of ideal or peak condition. See Synonyms at bloom1.
5. The first position of thrust and parry in fencing.
6. A mark () appended above and to the right of a character, especially:
a. One used to distinguish different values of the same variable in a mathematical expression.
b. One used to represent a unit of measurement, such as feet or minutes in latitude and longitude.
7. also Prime Ecclesiastical
a. The second of the seven canonical hours. No longer in liturgical use.
b. The time appointed for this service, the first hour of the day or 6 a.m.
8. Mathematics A prime number.
9. A prime rate.
10. See primitive.

This what we should consider when making a case if a fighter is in his prime or past his prime.

The problem is that different attributes peak at different times; e.g you can be have the fast hanspeed between 22-24 but your power is still improving, and your tactical astuteness and the ability will not reach it's heights till you are in your 30s.

I consider a fighter past his prime when the majority of attributes decline enough to make the fighter inferior as whole from where they were at there overall peak.

People are too quick to throw the past prime label around when a fighter has an off night or loses to a great fighter. Or even when they lose a bit of speed, they seem to ignore what that fighter has gained.


So I will ask the question, "When is a fighter in their "Prime" and past their "Prime"?" And what factors determine this for you?
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#2
Old 12-27-2011, 09:36 AM
CHOWWOKKA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
This what we should consider when making a case if a fighter is in his prime or past his prime.

The problem is that different attributes peak at different times; e.g you can be have the fast hanspeed between 22-24 but your power is still improving, and your tactical astuteness and the ability will not reach it's heights till you are in your 30s.

I consider a fighter past his prime when the majority of attributes decline enough to make the fighter inferior as whole from where they were at there overall peak.

People are too quick to throw the past prime label around when a fighter has an off night or loses to a great fighter. Or even when they lose a bit of speed, they seem to ignore what that fighter has gained.


So I will ask the question, "When is a fighter in their "Prime" and past their "Prime"?" And what factors determine this for you?
A fighter is past their prime when they; Get beaten by a journeyman named Zahir, get beat to a pulp by a guy with bricks in his gloves, loses his biggest fight and then gets a draw with a Latin Snake, gets suspended from the country for a year and fights at a catchweight AND fighting at a weightclass the boxer has not fought at in 7 years.

These are all indications a fighter is passed his prime. Glad to help ^_^
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#3
Old 12-27-2011, 09:43 AM
D4thincarnation
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Originally Posted by CHOWWOKKA View Post
A fighter is past their prime when they; Get beaten by a journeyman named Zahir, get beat to a pulp by a guy with bricks in his gloves, loses his biggest fight and then gets a draw with a Latin Snake, gets suspended from the country for a year and fights at a catchweight AND fighting at a weightclass the boxer has not fought at in 7 years.

These are all indications a fighter is passed his prime. Glad to help ^_^
Quite a narrow field you got there.

So Mosley is still in his prime?
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#4
Old 12-27-2011, 09:48 AM
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According to the rules of NSB?

Before they lose = Prime

After a loss = Past prime/Shot
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#5
Old 12-27-2011, 09:55 AM
CHOWWOKKA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
Quite a narrow field you got there.

So Mosley is still in his prime?
Includes but is not limited to*

Muhammad Ali, I don't think falls into any of those categories, but I would be willing to bet my house he is past his prime.
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#6
Old 12-27-2011, 09:59 AM
D4thincarnation
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHOWWOKKA View Post
Includes but is not limited to*

Muhammad Ali, I don't think falls into any of those categories, but I would be willing to bet my house he is past his prime.
So you don't have a all encapsulating theory on what prime and past prime is then.
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#7
Old 12-27-2011, 10:05 AM
CHOWWOKKA
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Originally Posted by D4thincarnation View Post
So you don't have a all encapsulating theory on what prime and past prime is then.
When you are no longer at the peak of your potential as a boxer ?

That's such a vague dictionary response that nobody is satisfied with, but if that's what you want.
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#8
Old 12-27-2011, 10:08 AM
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Prime is objective in boxing. There is no real word definition in boxing because they all do different things well.

For instance a prime Morales doesnt wait for an opening. He gets hit and then imposes his with sharp punching and strange angles immediately. A prime Floyd Mayweather lands that straight right and if you hesitate he hits you with 2 to 3 more and then heavy body work. This he no longer does.

A prime Roy Jones is side to side during his flurries with lighting speed. Past prime Roy allows his opponents to unload and if he's still standing after he'll throw a couple hooks.

Bottom line is that it can only be seen by a person who's willing to study a boxer from start to the present. If there is any areas that all past prime fighters have in common its missing opening where they used to pain guys ability to take a punch and timing.

In a sport that guys hop up three and four weight divisions its tough to confuse "past prime" with the "proper adjustments" to bigger guys with increased power. Sometimes our instability in judging is equal to deciding P4P rankings. Whats all the fukin fussin for.
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#9
Old 12-27-2011, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHOWWOKKA View Post
Includes but is not limited to*

Muhammad Ali, I don't think falls into any of those categories, but I would be willing to bet my house he is past his prime.
Wait you are losing me, but if I am not mistaken Mosely did in fact get a draw against the Latin Snake after (one of) the biggest fight of his life, didn't he? So by your standards clearly past his prime.
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#10
Old 12-27-2011, 10:22 AM
CHOWWOKKA
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Wait you are losing me, but if I am not mistaken Mosely did in fact get a draw against the Latin Snake after (one of) the biggest fight of his life, didn't he? So by your standards clearly past his prime.
Hmmm, hold on let me check...Yes he lost to Floyd Mayweather and afterwards he got a draw with a Sergio Mora who is also known as....The Latin Snake! hmmmmm I guess Shane Mosley is past his prime.
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