Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Non Stop Boxing
Reply
Thread Navigation

#1
Old 12-16-2011, 05:49 PM
hearnsfan86
Amateur
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 hearnsfan86 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,568.62
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,568.62
Default Were the past greats really that great!?

Lets talk about a subject that becomes very heated amongst the old school and new of boxing fans. How do the old legends of boxing stand up to the new breed?

Im not talking about fantasy matchups between duran and pacquiao, the pugilistic art hasnt changed that drastically in that space of time. Im talking about the likes of gene tunney, jack johnson etc......All are are ring legends, and deserve to be, but how would they fare against the modern era?

The reason i ask this is because i have been a boxing fan for 9 years now, there is only so many archived fights i can watch until i wound up looking up these guys that so many boxing historians talk about. And i know im going to get blasted for this....but i was not impressed.

Jack Johnson, who many historians believe would have beaten any heavyweight from any era is one that stands out. In the fight i watched with jess willard i wasnt overly impressed. Its not that its in black and white and old grainy footage. Ijust dont see the skill shown by the older boxers. Wheres the head movement? the bobbing and weaving? the defense!?!?! most of the time the 2 fighters are winging punches from the waist and dont have their hands up to defend themselves.

Dont get me wrong, i respect the hell out of these guys, youd have to respect fighters that have hundreds of fights back in those days, with the small gloves etc...It just seems to me that it was more fighting back then as opposed to boxing. It was about hard as nails men who could punch and take a punch. When you look at the likes of mayweather jr, with his impeccible defense, fast as lightning hands. is it logical to assume that these primitive fighters would have beaten our new breed??

Maybe im being stupid and am missing something. But isnt it just a case of boxing has evolved? A 1920s manchester united would be dumbfounded by the 2011 squad. Is boxing much different???

Last edited by hearnsfan86; 12-16-2011 at 05:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
hearnsfan86 is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#2
Old 12-16-2011, 05:56 PM
slickhook
Contender
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Age: 48
Posts: 312
Rep Power: 14 slickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond reputeslickhook has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,022,767.05
Bank: 163,991.51
Total Points: 10,186,758.55
Default

Merced Solis is somebody that is never brought up. A true great!
Reply With Quote
slickhook is offline
#3
Old 12-16-2011, 06:06 PM
shawowski
Contender
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 136
Rep Power: 4 shawowski is on a distinguished road
Points: 14,691.73
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 14,691.73
Default

I agree with you, my friends dont share the same opinion tho. With todays training and nutrition science and the evolution of man becoming faster and stronger, i think modern fighters would have a better chance
Reply With Quote
shawowski is offline
#4
Old 12-16-2011, 06:12 PM
Slyboots
MarGODito
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: East Bay, CA
Posts: 3,512
Rep Power: 18 Slyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond reputeSlyboots has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 11,098,955,814.89
Bank: 3,921,066,711,422.28
Total Points: 3,932,165,667,237.17
Be Joyful - Gift Giver 
Default

I agree with you as well. Boxing and boxers themselves have evolved a great deal since those times. Take Joe Louis for example, he would get ****ing sparked by the likes of Tyson, Lennox Louis and The Klit brothers in my opinion.
Reply With Quote
Slyboots is offline
#5
Old 12-16-2011, 06:17 PM
F l i c k e r
Gunslinger
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cali -> Colorado
Posts: 17,431
Rep Power: 45 F l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond reputeF l i c k e r has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 116,701.18
Bank: 41,313,812,171,009.03
Total Points: 41,313,812,287,710.21
Have one on me brotha. - Move BRICKS Cool cat, good poster - mangler cocktail hour - MANGLER Viva Antonio Margarito!!! - Jack Ruby more drank - MANGLER 
BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR! Benny rocks! - Bloody$Nate$ good to have people like you on this forum - BoZz Merry Christmas - Flab Merry Christmas :] - dj emzz Happy holidays bro! - led 
Happy Easter :D  :kiss: - Bossy i like your avatar - zab191 Cheers, to huge titties. - Very Rich Man Happy 15k posts darling! :kiss: - Bossy Happy birthday babe! I hope you have a wonderful day. love and kisses :kiss: - Bossy 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - MANGLER Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - MANGLER 
Default

Different eras.

Many of them wouldn't be as great now as they were then.

Even SRR. I can see him earning losses even in this era.
Reply With Quote
F l i c k e r is offline
#6
Old 12-16-2011, 06:18 PM
ИATAS
Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 100
Posts: 33,273
Rep Power: 161 ИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond reputeИATAS has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,927,954,619,256,887.25
Bank: 2,327,458,251,611,119.00
Total Points: 4,255,412,870,868,006.50
Have a virtual beer on me. - FRKO Good Poster! - J. HITTER Thanks for the help dude. - S a m u r a i For the brilliant post in lady's atheist 2 thread. - ABOSWORTH Bhop gif. I will send you gift number 2 when you actually finish it. :) - Precision 
Cocktail hour - mangler hey, you richly deserved the shiet right here, right now - cleaner147 to complete ur mothafukkin collection - cleaner147 War Hopkins!!!...Anyways Here Is A Gift My Man - BritishBoxing92 War Natas!!! - Old Coward 
Tye Tye Tye - DorianWozniacki one of my favourite posters - Blah! BURRRRRRRRR! - led's baby mama happy bday homey - MANGLER Pacquiao vs Marquez IV! - Check_hooks 
great game thanks for payment :beerchug: - jose830 Great thread - Boxing Goat -Rapernick- :lol1: - -jose- It's Easter time, here's an Easter Egg for making classic threads - jas Great poster - jas 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr Anti-Tobacco - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - jazluvr Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - jazluvr Childhood Cancer - jazluvr Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - jazluvr 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - street bully Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - jazluvr Aphasia - Asthma/Allergies - Brain Cancer - Brain Tumors - Diabetes - Mental Illness - jazluvr Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - jazluvr Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - jazluvr 
Autism - Lorily Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - jazluvr AIDS/HIV - DARE - DUI Awareness - Epidermolysis Bullosa - Heart Disease - Lymphoma - MADD - Substance Abuse - MANGLER Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - codey World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - jose830 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - jas Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - jas Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - jas Cancer - Epilepsy - Foster Care - Gynecological Cancer - Rett Syndrome - jas 
Default

they actually all sucked because all of those guys pushed off and clinched, which is totally illegal, therefor they were all cheaters!
Reply With Quote
ИATAS is online now
#7
Old 12-16-2011, 06:23 PM
IronDanHamza
IronDanHamza
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 26,922
Rep Power: 70 IronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond reputeIronDanHamza has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 29,220,116,152,484.16
Bank: 4,132,139,888,560,178.50
Total Points: 4,161,360,004,712,662.50
One of the best posters on the site. - Barnburner medal of honor - New England For ur award winning thread buddy - The Surgeon For getting more than 80% on my quiz. - Barnburner Super-Poster - McGoorty 
You have excellent boxing knowledge keep sharing! - rorymac Prize for thread contributions - McGoorty Merry Crimbo - The Surgeon for the facts... - Alx. Thanks for joining the discussion in my thread about GF's and boxing, its nice to hear everyones experiences with being a fan of the sport!!! - Atreyu Khalil 
Cool dude - BoxingGenius27 Happy New Year - Freedom. on the house... - mathed IronDanHamza knows boxing! - LoadedWraps Your unconditional love for Floyd - Freedom2014 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - New England Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Barnburner Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - Barnburner 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hearnsfan86 View Post
Lets talk about a subject that becomes very heated amongst the old school and new of boxing fans. How do the old legends of boxing stand up to the new breed?

Im not talking about fantasy matchups between duran and pacquiao, the pugilistic art hasnt changed that drastically in that space of time. Im talking about the likes of gene tunney, jack johnson etc......All are are ring legends, and deserve to be, but how would they fare against the modern era?

The reason i ask this is because i have been a boxing fan for 9 years now, there is only so many archived fights i can watch until i wound up looking up these guys that so many boxing historians talk about. And i know im going to get blasted for this....but i was not impressed.

Jack Johnson, who many historians believe would have beaten any heavyweight from any era is one that stands out. In the fight i watched with jess willard i wasnt overly impressed. Its not that its in black and white and old grainy footage. Ijust dont see the skill shown by the older boxers. Wheres the head movement? the bobbing and weaving? the defense!?!?! most of the time the 2 fighters are winging punches from the waist and dont have their hands up to defend themselves.

Dont get me wrong, i respect the hell out of these guys, youd have to respect fighters that have hundreds of fights back in those days, with the small gloves etc...It just seems to me that it was more fighting back then as opposed to boxing. It was about hard as nails men who could punch and take a punch. When you look at the likes of mayweather jr, with his impeccible defense, fast as lightning hands. is it logical to assume that these primitive fighters would have beaten our new breed??

Maybe im being stupid and am missing something. But isnt it just a case of boxing has evolved? A 1920s manchester united would be dumbfounded by the 2011 squad. Is boxing much different???
Like who? Name me some Historians who think Jack Johnson would beat any Heavyweight from any era.

You talk about old school fighters being 'primitive' and 'fighters instead of boxers' then how does that explain the likes of Charley Burley, Kid Gavilan, Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson, Ray Robinson, Willie Pep the list goes on and on who are frankly anything but that?
Reply With Quote
IronDanHamza is offline
#8
Old 12-16-2011, 06:25 PM
hearnsfan86
Amateur
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 hearnsfan86 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,568.62
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,568.62
Default

didnt expect everyone to agree tbh, thought i was gonna get called a traitor to the sport haha
Reply With Quote
hearnsfan86 is offline
#9
Old 12-16-2011, 06:30 PM
hearnsfan86
Amateur
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Posts: 14
Rep Power: 0 hearnsfan86 is on a distinguished road
Points: 5,568.62
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,568.62
Default

The likes of SRR, the cuban hawk and the wil o the wisp are different. Im tlking about older fighters. Ive heard countless interviews with boxing experts say that the older fighters always beat the new. Bert sugar has been quoted saying jack johnson beats many of the new fighters.
Reply With Quote
hearnsfan86 is offline
#10
Old 12-16-2011, 06:53 PM
KingTito
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Ray's Boom Boom Room
Posts: 8,454
Rep Power: 27 KingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond reputeKingTito has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 114,411,200,572.11
Bank: 31,167,535,018.18
Total Points: 145,578,735,590.30
Keep up with the good posts!!!!!! - abosworth Good poster - Joshua Clottey for being a laker fan...salud - Makavelli Great Poster!! - jazluvr for rockin the Boza Edwards avi. - Tha Executioner 
mayorgas favorite food - sugarsmosley You speak the truth on Floyd, he is an insecure HATER - hectari 
Default

The sport's evolved a lot. Naturally, the athletes have evolved as well. They were definitely great. Things are just different now. I recognize it as being different times, and that's that.
Reply With Quote
KingTito is offline
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
great!?, greats, past

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright 2003-2014 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:55 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.