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#51
Old 12-11-2011, 11:29 PM
check hook
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Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27 View Post
Mayweather was pushing off with the elbow, not throwing MMA elbow strikes. Khan pushed off with the elbow as well which warrented a warning.


The fact that it's well disguised and that he generally throws after it helps his case. He's been penalised before for excessive pushing off with the elbow in the Castillo fight (number 1) and rightfully so, as he was warned twice prior, and Castillo's inside game and strength was such that he had to do it often and wasn't able to diguise it well enough, or do it out of the refs view like usual.
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#52
Old 12-11-2011, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by check hook View Post
As always it will depend on the individual ref as to how much rule bending they allow, and also how it's affecting the fight. Generally if the pushing off or holding is excessive and not allowing the fight to flow you can expect deductions.

Fighters have been DQ'd for excessive holding and pushing off in the past and rightfully so in most of those instances. Can't comment on this particular fight yet, i'll probably watch tonight, but if it's excessive and above all not well disguised Khan has no one to blame but himself. Dirty fighting and rule bending is a skill just like any other. Some pro fighters don't even know how to hold a guy when they are in trouble, ditto holding, pushing and dirty fighting, some guys just can't disguise it.
When ? holding yes, pushing off. No one can give me an example.
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#53
Old 12-11-2011, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by check hook View Post
The fact that it's well disguised and that he generally throws after it helps his case. He's been penalised before for excessive pushing off with the elbow in the Castillo fight (number 1) and rightfully so, as he was warned twice prior, and Castillo's inside game and strength was such that he had to do it often and wasn't able to diguise it well enough, or do it out of the refs view like usual.
I think Mayweather normally stands stationary with his elbow up, which is perfectly legal. But when Mayweather decides to push off with his elbow or forearm to create space, that's when it becomes illegal.

In fact, if people listen to the pre-fight instructions Cortez gave Ortiz, Cortez explains to Team Ortiz why what Mayweather does isn't illegal.

From what I saw last night, Khan was blatantly pushing off with his elbow, forearm, and gloves. Which isn't the same as what Mayweather legally does.
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#54
Old 12-11-2011, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Furn View Post
Sure he was being warned, I cant honestly remember someone even being warned for pushing off. Why was the ref on it from the start.

I find it hard to believe that in a 100 years of boxing this is the worst case of pushing there's ever been.

Yes its technically illegal but its been let go forever. Technically floyd's shoulder roll lean away defense is illegal because he turns his back on his opponent a little bit but its allowed because its just part of the game.

If he fought Pac and lost by a point and lost 2 points for turning his back there would be outrage.

You can't just crack down on one rule out of the blue.



One thing about the Pushing deduction. A little shove/push is fine, the ref won't call that as long as it doesn't blatantly look like you're trying to push him across the whole ring. Should have been more careful instead repeating the same offense.
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#55
Old 12-11-2011, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Furn View Post
Now this isn't a Khan cry.

Peterson was a warrior and deserved the win.

However, I don;t agree with the points taken, whether its the rules or not is irelevent. Its what happens in fights normally that should be the standard.

Now, I have nearly 2000 fights on vhs, dvd and hard drive going back to the 60's and iv'e watched them all and most at least 3-4 times and i can't for the life of me remember a fighter being docked points for pushing.

Ali used to hold guys on the inside and then push them off and punch all the time. It was almost his signature move post the vietnam ban.

So why now out of the blue is pushing a deductable offence ?

Anyone got a fight where this has happened before ?
I've heard Referees warn against pushing off several times in more recent years. Seems like a fighter shouldn't be able to ignore a warning no matter if anyone has been penalized before or not. I agree its sort of knit picking to warn against pushing off, but a fighter has to listen to the referee.
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#56
Old 12-11-2011, 11:52 PM
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Whatever you idiot, Khan could have been disqualified for holding and pushing Peterson's head down every single round and Khan could have been disqualified for pushing Peterson back on every single break. All of these moves Khan was using were intended to gain him an unfair advantage.
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#57
Old 12-11-2011, 11:55 PM
Furn
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Originally Posted by THE CONQUEROR View Post
Whatever you idiot, Khan could have been disqualified for holding and pushing Peterson's head down every single round and Khan could have been disqualified for pushing Peterson back on every single break. All of these moves Khan was using were intended to gain him an unfair advantage.
and im the idiot.

You should be a ref mate.

If you hate Khan just say it. This is about the sport and fairness.
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#58
Old 12-12-2011, 12:12 AM
ADP02
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Originally Posted by BoxingGenius27 View Post
If I remember correctly, Mayweather lost points for pushing off Castillo in their first fight.

Nice try but Floyd was using his elbow for starters. When Khan lost the points, he had used his gloves primarily to push him off. Secondly, it was more of an even up call by the ref for taking a point away from Castillo a few rounds earlier.

For Khan, there was no evening up ... it was the opposite. He deducted 2 points for .... pushing! Too funny!

Actually, in that fight, Floyd not only did he use his elbow, he pushed Castillo down similarly to the way Khan pushed Peterson down throughout the fight. For that neither one lost any points.

Last edited by ADP02; 12-12-2011 at 12:18 AM.
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