Charley Burley at welterweight

Welsh Jon · 10:14 AM

A lot of people rate Charley Burley as a top 10. welterweight, The Ring Magazine have him ranked as high as number 4, above even the likes of Sugar Ray Leonard.

I was just wondering why this is? I can see why he's ranked so highly at middleweight, but his welterweight resume doesn't look all that great.

I'm not studied Burley's career in all that much depth so was just wondering if anyone could explain.

Barnburner

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Charley Burley
Sugar Ray Leonard
Carmen Basilio
Jose Napoles
Tommy Ryan
Joe Walcott
Emile Griffith
Thomas Hearns
Mickey Walker
Jack Britton
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Barney Ross
Jimmy McLarnin
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Billy Graham
Pernell Whitaker
Roberto Duran

Was the rings latest, did you mean SRL?

Anyways I agree, he did beat Zivic and Cocoa kid at that weight but, i don't think that deserves a Top 5 ranking.

However I'm not well versed on him.

NChristo

Welterweight was his best / prime weight, I don't know if the ring take his achievements from other weights and put him there because of that ?, I certainly wouldn't be able to find any room for him in a top 10 at Welter though.

New England

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welsh Jon

A lot of people rate Charley Burley as a top 10. welterweight, The Ring Magazine have him ranked as high as number 4, above even the likes of Sugar Ray Robinson.

I was just wondering why this is? I can see why he's ranked so highly at middleweight, but his welterweight resume doesn't look all that great.

I'm not studied Burley's career in all that much depth so was just wondering if anyone could explain.

four is a bit lofty perhaps
and there's no way in hell he was a better WW than ray robinson (though the legend holds that robinson wanted no part of burley, it probably had a lot to do with money.)

burley had trouble finding fights at all weights but he had the most at WW. so while his resume might not stack up against some of the best at WW, he gets some (perhaps too much,) credit for being the most avoided WW of all time.

to the extent that i know, there is no film of his work at WW but he was reported to be a very special fighter at the weight
eddie futch said he was the most complete fighter he ever saw.

he was a now you see me now you dont boxer with a very hard punch and a granite chin (never stopped in almost 100 fights)
very good defense. very hard to hit. very effective counterpuncher.

really not a guy you want to fight unless the money is terrific, which unfortunately it never was.

burley is certainly an ATG, but in a stacked division like WW it's hard to put a number on his "ranking"

The Surgeon

I did a thread a while back on the best WW's ever and he made my top 5, i base it on the fact that he fought there during his peak years alot, id call his best years around 1939-1942 and during that time he fought 12 times out of 27 at WW. He beat Holman Williams there, had the split decision loss with Zivic (who beat Armstrong) and that was twice avenged. I rate the guy and have no problem with that ranking though its obviously debatable

Welsh Jon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnburner

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
Henry Armstrong
Kid Gavilan
Charley Burley
Sugar Ray Leonard
Carmen Basilio
Jose Napoles
Tommy Ryan
Joe Walcott
Emile Griffith
Thomas Hearns
Mickey Walker
Jack Britton
Ted (Kid) Lewis
Barney Ross
Jimmy McLarnin
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Billy Graham
Pernell Whitaker
Roberto Duran

Was the rings latest, did you mean SRL?

Anyways I agree, he did beat Zivic and Cocoa kid at that weight but, i don't think that deserves a Top 5 ranking.

However I'm not well versed on him.

Yeah sorry meant SRL. Need to edit that.

Barnburner

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Surgeon

I did a thread a while back on the best WW's ever and he made my top 5, i base it on the fact that he fought there during his peak years alot, id call his best years around 1939-1942 and during that time he fought 12 times out of 27 at WW. He beat Holman Williams there, had the split decision loss with Zivic (who beat Armstrong) and that was twice avenged. I rate the guy and have no problem with that ranking though its obviously debatable

Yeah forgot about Williams but, IMO he is a better MW than WW.

IronDanHamza

Fritzie Zivic x2
Cocoa Kid
And Holman Williams

Is a pretty strong 4 signature wins at a single weight.

He beat other good fighters there too.

May not justify a ranking over Ray Leonard and such. But it gets him into the Top 10. Despite having a better MW.

I imagine their reasoning will be a lot down to H2H ability and skills aswell.

Welsh Jon

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronDanHamza

Fritzie Zivic x2
Cocoa Kid
And Holman Williams

Is a pretty strong 4 signature wins at a single weight.

He beat other good fighters there too.

May not justify a ranking over Ray Leonard and such. But it gets him into the Top 10. Despite having a better MW.

I imagine their reasoning will be a lot down to H2H ability and skills aswell.

I agree he's got a good welter resume, and he could easily break into a top 10 list, just don't see him as a top 5 welterweight. In terms of welterweight resume there's no way he's ahead of the likes of SRL, Emile Griffith and Jose Napoles.

I guess h2h ability could push him into the number 4 spot, though SRL, Griffith and Napoles were so good you'd have to be very confident of Burley's skills to push them down any welterweight list.

IronDanHamza

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welsh Jon

I agree he's got a good welter resume, and he could easily break into a top 10 list, just don't see him as a top 5 welterweight. In terms of welterweight resume there's no way he's ahead of the likes of SRL, Emile Griffith and Jose Napoles.

I guess h2h ability could push him into the number 4 spot, though SRL, Griffith and Napoles were so good you'd have to be very confident of Burley's skills to push them down any welterweight list.

I don't have him in my personal Top 10 at WW.

Like others I rank him at MW, despite his prime being at WW. Simply because he did more there.

But I'd say he certainly has an argument for Top 10 at WW.

1.Sugar Ray Robinson
2.Henry Armstrong
3.Ray Leonard
4.Joe Walcott
5.Kid Gavilan
6.Emile Griffith
7.Jimmy Mclarnin
8.Barney Ross
9.Jose Napoles
10.Tommy Hearns

That'a my personal WW list. Who could he replace? Tommy Hearns maybe?

NChristo Morning Glory Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Blackpool Posts: 4,900 Rep Power: 15 Points: 1,000,019,804.27 Bank: 610,132,132,650.39 Total Points: 611,132,152,454.66 Donate	Welterweight was his best / prime weight, I don't know if the ring take his achievements from other weights and put him there because of that ?, I certainly wouldn't be able to find any room for him in a top 10 at Welter though.

IronDanHamza All Time Great Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 18,038 Rep Power: 48 Points: 10,262,350,160.65 Bank: 2,100,278,938,997.18 Total Points: 2,110,541,289,157.83 Donate	Fritzie Zivic x2 Cocoa Kid And Holman Williams Is a pretty strong 4 signature wins at a single weight. He beat other good fighters there too. May not justify a ranking over Ray Leonard and such. But it gets him into the Top 10. Despite having a better MW. I imagine their reasoning will be a lot down to H2H ability and skills aswell.