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#11
Old 11-20-2011, 04:03 AM
edgarg
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Originally Posted by Lorily View Post
Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.
Yes, I noticed that myself, but thought it was because of MannyP's style of moving erratically, to confuse. He was doing much better when he turned the right way. My impression of the whole fight was that MannyP didn not look anything like what we have come to expect and I don't think it was because of Marquez' expertise. Manny let him look that way. he was not himself, and reminded me of the Mosley fight. he was dejected after this fight because he felt he'd let down his supporters who expected a blowout. He really was a different guy.

Yes Manny would have done much better if he'd followed instuctions, and I understand that he didn't follow Ariza's instructions in training either.

As for Bob Arum getting to Marquez immediately after the fight, this is the first time I've seen a camera panning on Arum immediately after the fight, they always immediately on the fighters or the analysts interviews. This looked like a put up job. Antway, it was natural for Arum to be so delighted with the result, that it was such a close fight that a #4 was almost a certainty. So I give him a pass here. Believe it or not Arum has a very charitable heart and was also wanting to sooth him a little and sympathise. (remember what we accidentally learned about Carlos Hernandez's lengthy chemotherapy and Bob's paying not only for the years long chemo, but bringing him there and back, as well as supporting his family). Remember how he let Oscar off the hook for the law case when he found he was in a sanatarium. That's a deeply ingrained charity of a Jew.

So I'm glad this site, had found that we have at least one more knowledgeable GOOD poster to prop up the dwindling few. We've been flooded in by dreadful garbage likely from East Side Boxing, who have a huge surplus,plus the lousiest most amateur writers I've ever come across.

All the Best,

Edgar G.
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#12
Old 11-20-2011, 04:08 AM
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Ahem...hmmm...it causes more cramp when he moves to his right. SO he only moves to his left. He was hmmm...overtrained.
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#13
Old 11-20-2011, 04:15 AM
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Its not easy, JMM is an intelligent fighter period, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley arent, JMM made Pacquiao think and by thinking he got lost in the middle of the ring because he isnt a thinker, We looks great when his opponent doesnt make him think, So i would credit JMM instead of looking at why Pac didnt follow Roach's instructions.
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#14
Old 11-20-2011, 04:22 AM
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I think he cannot follow instructions because he has other things on his mind. It is the first time his entrance is not the smiling,waving, bubbly old self.
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#15
Old 11-20-2011, 04:34 AM
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I haven't got a chance to see the fight yet because of other commitments, but you should really start more threads Lorily. You're one of the more astute fans on this forum.
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#16
Old 11-20-2011, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorily View Post
Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.
I sure believe that JMM would have more difficulty had Pacquiao listened to Roach's instruction.

Question is why Pacquiao at least didnt make so much attempt to move in his right?

Last edited by S.I.L.V.A; 11-20-2011 at 04:51 AM.
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#17
Old 11-20-2011, 05:26 AM
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Lorily is smart but bias. You will see through her over time. She has subtle agenda's.

As for Manny not moving to his right, he hasn't listened to Roach for a while. Roach Said is snidely your friend? Why tap gloves. He didn't tell PAC to hang on the ropes vs Cotto. Roach doesn't have that sincere voice and PAC doesn't look a him in that corner the same way anymore.

PAC first needs sparring partners that actually mimic styles of fighters. Rodela and all of them used last weRe extremely poor.
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#18
Old 11-20-2011, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorily View Post
Freddie told Manny several times throughout the fight that he needed to move to his right, but Pac continuously kept moving to his left. He wasn't really circling, persay - it was more like he was "drifting" left then it was circling (IMO). Most of the time when Manny threw his punches he was also dipping to his left, which played into Marquez's right hand power shots. The few times when Pac actually did go to his right, and when he threw combos and dodged out to the right (which was rare), he would make JMM miss most of the time. And also, when Pac did go to his right - with the way JMM's stance is and with the feet placement between a southpaw and conventional fighter, it made it harder for JMM to move at that angle. I noticed it so early in the fight that it was frustrating the hell out of me. I can't for the life of me figure out why Manny didn't listen to Freddies advice on that. It seemed like Manny hardly used any angles against Juan at all, which is bizarre IMO. With JMM being such a supreme counter puncher, he was able to come back and catch Pac with 2 or 3 good counter punches almost every time Manny would throw anything.

Do you think it could have made any significant difference in the fight if Pac would have listened to Roach's instruction regarding that?

In addition: After just watching the replay of the fight on HBO tonight (Side note: they showed a few things from the 24/7 angle like they did in FMJ/Ortiz) - a few things of interest that I hadn't seen during the PPV....

After they showed the scores and announced Pac was the winner, the 24/7 camera panned to Alex Ariza - who clearly mouthed "Whew!" and made a motion of wiping sweat off of his eyebrow (and then he laughed). I thought that was kindof telling of him to do that.

After they showed Pacquiao was the winner, the camera went directly to Marquez's corner and Bob Arum was in there talking to Juan. I don't think I've ever seen Bob go to Pacs opponent before going to Pac first. Odd for Bob? It looked like he was saying something serious (Probably something like "Juan, think of all the money we could make with a 4th fight.")

And perhaps the funniest thing (IMO), was when Max was interviewing an all-but(t) naked JMM in the dressing room, after the fight. Max would ask Juan a question, look down at that sombrero, and then embarassingly look away. At one time, even chuckling before asking the next question. Max looked hella uncomfortable, especially since Juan had his legs stretched out and laid back, looking like he litterally just got ****ed LOL.
Great post Lori,I think it had more to do with JMM skills then it did Pac not listening to Roach..I also don't think Pac is the same fighter he once was,I believe he has become civilized..He did not take the same chances that he did in his first two fights,which is the reason why I gave him the 2end fight and had the 1st one a draw...It had a lot to do with Pac's effective aggression,that was missing in this 3rd fight...Pac was really just fighting into JMM game plan by boxing and trying to counter the counter puncher..Funny thing is Nacho said that Pac's new way of fighting would play into his hands and it did..

Pac was thinking way to much,he was not explosive in this fight..He gave away his advantage which was his power and his explosiveness,he will never win a thinking battle with a fighter like JMM..

Arum was giving JMM a bunch of promises most likely(lol)I(and my guest I had a lil party the night of the fight)felt so bad for JMM..You watch him get ready for this fight,push his body to the limit and then to get jerked like this was crazy..I'm sure Arum was trying to soften the blow of a big disputed decision ...Quick question,is JMM signed to Arum/TR??

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#19
Old 11-20-2011, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianBale View Post
Lorily is smart but bias. You will see through her over time. She has subtle agenda's.

As for Manny not moving to his right, he hasn't listened to Roach for a while. Roach Said is snidely your friend? Why tap gloves. He didn't tell PAC to hang on the ropes vs Cotto. Roach doesn't have that sincere voice and PAC doesn't look a him in that corner the same way anymore.

PAC first needs sparring partners that actually mimic styles of fighters. Rodela and all of them used last weRe extremely poor.
You have to be kidding right??Lori is a great poster bottom line,she is not bias at all..She has her view but that does not mean she is bias...I hope to become as astute and articulate as she is...
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#20
Old 11-20-2011, 07:18 AM
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i was saying exactly the same thing during the fight, lori. it's been comical to watch pacquiao lately. how can the world's supposed #1 P4P look so one dimensional and wild in there? mosley and marquez were laying down a trail of candy for pacquiao to gobble around their maze, it was like watching a live action of pac-man the video game play out... even maidana knows how to effectively cut the ring off and pressure moving opponents but people here constantly knock on that guy for his tomato can skills.
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