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#1
Old 11-17-2011, 11:20 PM
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Default My alltime heavyweight top 25. Whats yours?

I expect my list to be picked apart and argued over. That's cool, but post you own as well. Nothing is definitive and things are always changing the more we learn. I don't mind taking a little heat for my list. Do you?

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney
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#2
Old 11-18-2011, 12:19 AM
Steak
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I couldnt make a top 25 list if I tried, its so complicated and I would be switching it around constantly.


Of course I have to nitpick, and I would put Ali above Louis based on his better opposition, and would not have Johnson nearly as high as he is...If you have Johnson as high as #3, then Harry Wills deserves to be at least in the top 10, since their best wins are pretty much the same guys.

I dont know a HUGE amount about Jeffries, but I wouldnt put him as high as he is, he didnt have the quality of wins other guys have and did not have longevity either.

also I would never omit Patterson from the top 25 all time.

nitpicking is so much fun.
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#3
Old 11-18-2011, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Steak View Post
I couldnt make a top 25 list if I tried, its so complicated and I would be switching it around constantly.


Of course I have to nitpick, and I would put Ali above Louis based on his better opposition, and would not have Johnson nearly as high as he is...If you have Johnson as high as #3, then Harry Wills deserves to be at least in the top 10, since their best wins are pretty much the same guys.

I dont know a HUGE amount about Jeffries, but I wouldnt put him as high as he is, he didnt have the quality of wins other guys have and did not have longevity either.

also I would never omit Patterson from the top 25 all time.

nitpicking is so much fun.

You son of a.....


I got no problem with anyone rating Ali over Louis. Johnson I should actually have at #4 with Holmes ahead of him. I like Wills and think he's had a better career than most give him credit for, but he doesn't belong in the top 10.

Jeffries has an incredible resume considering the amoount of fights he has. Its his longevity that pushes him down the ladder.

I love Patterson. Love how he carried himself and love how he fought. But I never thought he was a GREAT heavyweight, though Im sure I could justify a way to get him on the top 20 or 25. It's just that D'Amato's ducking of top fighters like Liston, Williams, Machen and one or two others has never sat well with me. I think both Williams and Liston would have crushed him in 1958 and it would have dinged up his resume pretty good in my opinion. Keep nit picking brother, Im game.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:59 AM
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You son of a.....


I got no problem with anyone rating Ali over Louis. Johnson I should actually have at #4 with Holmes ahead of him. I like Wills and think he's had a better career than most give him credit for, but he doesn't belong in the top 10.

Jeffries has an incredible resume considering the amoount of fights he has. Its his longevity that pushes him down the ladder.

I love Patterson. Love how he carried himself and love how he fought. But I never thought he was a GREAT heavyweight, though Im sure I could justify a way to get him on the top 20 or 25. It's just that D'Amato's ducking of top fighters like Liston, Williams, Machen and one or two others has never sat well with me. I think both Williams and Liston would have crushed him in 1958 and it would have dinged up his resume pretty good in my opinion. Keep nit picking brother, Im game.
Wills beat the same level of opposition that Johnson did, and even did it multiple times. He beat a true HW version of Langford, as opposed to the 150lb one Johnson fought. Johnson beat a teenage version of McVea, while Wills beat a much more seasoned McVea. I have no problem saying that Johnson beat the better Jeannette, even though when Johnson beat him he only had a few fights and a pretty lackluster record.

also Wills has underrated wins such Fred Fulton, Firpo and Weinhart. I consider those wins just about as good as anything Johnson did during his title reign, since he refused to fight the best opponents out there.

I think Johnson is not far removed from Wills in terms of greatness, if at all. I wouldnt put Johnson that high up because I dont think his opposition was all that, but even if I did, theres no way Id make him so far remove from Wills.

Even if Patterson did duck those opponents, he still has one of the best heavyweight resumes out there. Jacksonx2, Moore, Harris, London, Johanssonx2, Machen, Chuvalo, draw with Quarry, Bonavena...all good wins at the time. I just couldnt leave him out of the top 25.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:38 AM
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Good ranking Jab. I would change a few around but I can understand why you had each of the fighters where they were. Ranking all time lists is so objectionable, 25 fans with good boxing knowledge could turn in 25 different top 25 rankings. The main similarity I believe in twenty five different rankings of the heavyweight division would be the top two.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:17 AM
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I would rank Foreman higher and Tyson lower. Can't really see placing Tyson over Holyfield. Foreman I believe is top five minimum, maybe even top three.
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Old 11-18-2011, 03:30 AM
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There's no way in hell that Lennox Lewis is rated higher than George Foreman. Big George beat prime fighters while Lennox did not. George also goes above Sonny Liston as well imo as much as I love Sonny. Marciano is also rated far too low in my opinion. I have to think that Gene Tunney shoukd be a tad higher as well. Also, Wladimir Klitschko's lack of a career defining fight has me lost on where to place him, I feel more comfortable placing Vitali on this list than him. With that said,great job with the list, I couldn't bring myself to put together a list outside of the top 5, so I admire you for making up a top 25 list.

Last edited by La_Vibora; 11-18-2011 at 03:32 AM.
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Old 11-18-2011, 07:48 AM
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I expect my list to be picked apart and argued over. That's cool, but post you own as well. Nothing is definitive and things are always changing the more we learn. I don't mind taking a little heat for my list. Do you?

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Jack Johnson
4. Larry Holmes
5. Sonny Liston
6. Lennox Lewis
7. George Foreman
8. Mike Tyson
9. Evander Holyfield
10. Rocky Marciano

11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills
13. Jack Dempsey
14. Jim Jeffries
15. Ezzard Charles
17. Sam Langford
18. Wladimir Klitschko
19. Joe Walcott
20. Max Schmeling

21. Ken Norton
22. Riddick Bowe
23. Max Baer
24. Jim Corbett
25. Gene Tunney


My struggle is whether to rate based on legacy/legend and resume or based on how the head to head matchup would go if we are talking prime versions of the fighters.

For example in your list I'd favour Tunney over Corbett in terms of head to head/prime for prime.......Riddick Bowe would probably be top ten head to head/prime for prime.

And based on Legend/resume/legacy Floyd Patterson deserves to be ranked above Max Schmelling.

I think I'd have to do two lists, 1) head to head and 2) legacy.

But the head to head list causes real problems because.....for example I might pick Frazier over Holmes, but also I might pick Holmes over Foreman....however it would be wrong to therefore have Frazier above Foreman when we know what actually happened when they met.
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:06 AM
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LL above Holyfield?
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Old 11-18-2011, 08:57 AM
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The ATGs

01. Muhammad Ali
02. Joe Louis
03. Jack Johnson
04. Jack Dempsey
05. Larry Holmes
06. Sonny Liston
07. Evander Holyfield
08. George Foreman
09. Rocky Marciano
10. Mike Tyson
11. Joe Frazier
12. Harry Wills


The Near-Greats

13. Lennox Lewis
14. Jersey Joe Walcott
15. James Jeffries
16. Peter Jackson
17. Joe Jeannette
18. Riddick Bowe
19. Vitali Klitschko
20. James Corbett
21. Floyd Patterson
22. Max Schmeling
23. George Godfrey
24. Ken Norton
25. Wlad Klitschko
26. Sam McVey
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