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#21
Old 11-14-2011, 04:29 AM
sdcluser
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WALTER WHITE View Post
If Pac didn't fight slow, plodding, over the hill, past prime fighters the last 3 years, I bet he wouldn't have felt like shit yesterday. And yes, he felt like shit. Look at his body language when the fight ended. Marquez raised his arm in absolute triumph, knowing that he finally beat his rival. Pacquiao looked dejected. When Pacquiao was put on one of his people's shoulders he looked ashamed. I would have had a load of respect for Pacquiao if he said that he may have lost or that he thought it was a draw but no, all he could say is that "I clearly won" during the post fight press conference.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Not sure about the cherry picking part exactly. But man, Pac looked like his dawg just died after the fight.
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#22
Old 11-14-2011, 09:07 AM
jaddy21
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Originally Posted by hypodermical View Post
Are you trying to say that pac was a better fighter when he was a straight up brawler??? ie morales 1 ? Are you kidding me?! Manny's natural speed and power with the technical boxing that he gained from Roach made him better.

I do agree that Pac tried to outbox JMM too much, meaning he was way too conservative and cautious. But that doesn't mean that he should've gone full brawler mode instead. It should've been somewhere in the middle.


Go watch the fight again and watch when Pac was moving to his right, JMM's left. that's when he was getting JMM and JMM was unable to counter since Pac would be almost behind him after. Then Pac's corner told him to keep doing that, but he didn't listen.

Marquez outclassed Pac? Really? I respect your opinion if you think JMM won the CLOSE FIGHT. But to say that JMM outclassed Pac is plain retard! Did you see JMM's face after the fight? The DEFENSIVE fighter got hit more, that's why he lost.
OK, just rewatched the fight.

No I'm not advocating he go back to being a one punch fighter, but having only lost to Morales but beating Barerra and drawing with Marquez before that fight he was doing pretty well as a loose canon...

Was Manny a better fighter when he first fought Marquez? It looks that way because he won the first fight, knocked him down 4 times and only closely lost the second fight in my opinion. If he fought like that yesterday there was every possibility of taking Marquez out by being explosive and unpredictable, not by being careful. All the talk from Pacs corner was how this was going to be definitive with a knockout... I was hoping that Pacman was going to show up and teach Marquez a lesson, but it was the other way around.

To be honest on replay the HBO broadcast and commentary seems highly biased, not to mention the pathetic scoring by Lederman, 8 rounds to 4.... bollocks. His defending of the judges and commenting how good and honest they were at the end of the fight seemed like a setup for what was to come with scoring. To be honest the fight looked a lot closer when listening to the HBO commentary, but I believe they were leading or misleading the audience or just being too pro Pacquiao.

I watched the original fight without sound as the speaker system had broken at the venue, which almost cause a riot.... But I'm glad now as I was going by what I saw and it was 8 to 4 Marquez with Marquez landing the hard clean shots. The place was full of Filipinos and you could have heard a pin drop, there was barely a cheer for Pacquiao the whole fight. Another thing with the replays between rounds. I think it was round 7 or 8 where Marquez landed a flurry of punches and on replay they showed Pac landing one shot on him and completely ignored that beautiful combination, happened in another round too, and there were instances where Marquez shots were just plain ignored by the commentators altogether.

I did see Marquez's face, sure did, but did you see Manny's at the end of the fight? That didn't look like a winners face and he looked sheepish when the results were read out. A black eye doesn't mean you win a boxing match. There were so many rounds where Pacquiao was given the benefit of the doubt and the edge, where there was none to give, at worst I call it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez.

Marquez out boxed him definitely with Pacman unsure of which route to take for victory, he got Pacman to change his style, which is a compliment in itself. Marquez did what he does, brilliant technical counter punching with great timing.

Last edited by jaddy21; 11-14-2011 at 09:18 AM.
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#23
Old 11-14-2011, 09:10 AM
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No chance Manny took this easy - Usually his camp make up these distractions that they are supposedly worried about in order to make the fight seem harder, but this time they said he was "the best he's ever been" etc and he has fought close fights with JMM before and stated he wanted to shut him up once and for all...he would have been at his most determined for this fight no doubt!

It's not as if he was fighting a journeyman...then I would say he lost focus, but he was fighting his nemesis. We may have underestimated how JMM would perform but Manny and his team wouldn't, because they experienced frustration against him TWICE ALREADY!

Last edited by apokalips; 11-14-2011 at 09:15 AM.
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#24
Old 11-14-2011, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jaddy21 View Post
OK, just rewatched the fight.

No I'm not advocating he go back to being a one punch fighter, but having only lost to Morales but beating Barerra and drawing with Marquez before that fight he was doing pretty well as a loose canon...

Was Manny a better fighter when he first fought Marquez? It looks that way because he won the first fight, knocked him down 4 times and only closely lost the second fight in my opinion. If he fought like that yesterday there was every possibility of taking Marquez out by being explosive and unpredictable, not by being careful. All the talk from Pacs corner was how this was going to be definitive with a knockout... I was hoping that Pacman was going to show up and teach Marquez a lesson, but it was the other way around.

To be honest on replay the HBO broadcast and commentary seems highly biased, not to mention the pathetic scoring by Lederman, 8 rounds to 4.... bollocks. His defending of the judges and commenting how good and honest they were at the end of the fight seemed like a setup for what was to come with scoring. To be honest the fight looked a lot closer when listening to the HBO commentary, but I believe they were leading or misleading the audience or just being too pro Pacquiao.

I watched the original fight without sound as the speaker system had broken at the venue, which almost cause a riot.... But I'm glad now as I was going by what I saw and it was 8 to 4 Marquez with Marquez landing the hard clean shots. The place was full of Filipinos and you could have heard a pin drop, there was barely a cheer for Pacquiao the whole fight. Another thing with the replays between rounds. I think it was round 7 or 8 where Marquez landed a flurry of punches and on replay they showed Pac landing one shot on him and completely ignored that beautiful combination, happened in another round too, and there were instances where Marquez shots were just plain ignored by the commentators altogether.

I did see Marquez's face, sure did, but did you see Manny's at the end of the fight? That didn't look like a winners face and he looked sheepish when the results were read out. A black eye doesn't mean you win a boxing match. There were so many rounds where Pacquiao was given the benefit of the doubt and the edge, where there was none to give, at worst I call it 7 rounds to 5 for Marquez.

Marquez out boxed him definitely with Pacman unsure of which route to take for victory, he got Pacman to change his style, which is a compliment in itself. Marquez did what he does, brilliant technical counter punching with great timing.
You're reason for saying that Pac's brawling style is better for him than his current more controlled style is the fact that he won and kd'd jmm in their first 2 fights. Thats silly.

I scored it 7 rounds to 5 Pac. I don't know what fight you saw, but that place was dominated by JMM fans. They were LOUD from round 1. I did not hear a "Manny" once. I agree than JMM clearly landed the clearer more flush shots, but so did Clottey. You don't win rounds by getting your opponent with 1 or 2 great shots and eating 5-6. Pac was dissapointed because he failed to deliver a definitive win and KO not because he thought he lost the fight. The only damage JMM gave him was a busted lip and a headbutt. JMM's face was clearly tagged up from all the punches he took from Pac.

It was not a robbery. It was a very close fight. Pac landed more punches and won more rounds. Again, there are plenty of threads to debate on who won the fight, this isn't one of them. I respect the opinions of people who thought JMM won a CLOSE fight. It wasn't a "boxing clinic" no one "outclassed" anyone. I gave it to Pac, you gave it to JMM. I hope they fight again.
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#25
Old 11-15-2011, 12:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypodermical View Post
You're reason for saying that Pac's brawling style is better for him than his current more controlled style is the fact that he won and kd'd jmm in their first 2 fights. Thats silly.

I scored it 7 rounds to 5 Pac. I don't know what fight you saw, but that place was dominated by JMM fans. They were LOUD from round 1. I did not hear a "Manny" once. I agree than JMM clearly landed the clearer more flush shots, but so did Clottey. You don't win rounds by getting your opponent with 1 or 2 great shots and eating 5-6. Pac was dissapointed because he failed to deliver a definitive win and KO not because he thought he lost the fight. The only damage JMM gave him was a busted lip and a headbutt. JMM's face was clearly tagged up from all the punches he took from Pac.

It was not a robbery. It was a very close fight. Pac landed more punches and won more rounds. Again, there are plenty of threads to debate on who won the fight, this isn't one of them. I respect the opinions of people who thought JMM won a CLOSE fight. It wasn't a "boxing clinic" no one "outclassed" anyone. I gave it to Pac, you gave it to JMM. I hope they fight again.
I wasn't talking about Filipinos at ringside, I was speaking about the 1000 Filipinos at the Venue where I was out of 1100 people, without commentary, simply watching the fight unfold, not a sound...

Don't take my word for it that Pacquiao fought better and was a better fighter previous, Larry Merchant's latest article talks all about it. His victories over Barerra, Morales and the first Marquez fight were his finest wins against true champions and tough boxers whose records stand the test of time. His latest triumphs have been thoroughly underwhelming with opposition on their way out, sideways or down.

Pacquiao had such great potential but his new life as poster boy and potential President has robbed boxing of a great fighter. I think that's the most disappointing thing, he's so big and loved in the Philippines that the powers that be can't have him lose and can't have him take risks, a real shame. There's no need to fight again the score is 2 to 1 to Marquez, but if they do the result will be no different and the controversy will continue.

As much as I dislike Floyd Mayweather, that fight ain't going to happen, Pacquiao will get creamed all the way to a 12 round decision, and now he knows it.. No overwhelming pressure on Floyd no way to win, he'll pick Pac to pieces. Before this fight I though he may have a chance but Marquez confirms the result of a Mayweather fight. I don't know who that leaves him to fight, nobody's i guess.
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#26
Old 11-17-2011, 06:05 AM
hypodermical
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaddy21 View Post
I wasn't talking about Filipinos at ringside, I was speaking about the 1000 Filipinos at the Venue where I was out of 1100 people, without commentary, simply watching the fight unfold, not a sound...

Don't take my word for it that Pacquiao fought better and was a better fighter previous, Larry Merchant's latest article talks all about it. His victories over Barerra, Morales and the first Marquez fight were his finest wins against true champions and tough boxers whose records stand the test of time. His latest triumphs have been thoroughly underwhelming with opposition on their way out, sideways or down.

Pacquiao had such great potential but his new life as poster boy and potential President has robbed boxing of a great fighter. I think that's the most disappointing thing, he's so big and loved in the Philippines that the powers that be can't have him lose and can't have him take risks, a real shame. There's no need to fight again the score is 2 to 1 to Marquez, but if they do the result will be no different and the controversy will continue.

As much as I dislike Floyd Mayweather, that fight ain't going to happen, Pacquiao will get creamed all the way to a 12 round decision, and now he knows it.. No overwhelming pressure on Floyd no way to win, he'll pick Pac to pieces. Before this fight I though he may have a chance but Marquez confirms the result of a Mayweather fight. I don't know who that leaves him to fight, nobody's i guess.

It was a very tense, scary and disappointing fight for Pac fans. NO ONE expected it to be that close. That is the reason why even if a Pac fan thought Pac won, you will not see him cheering. Pac underperformed, that's clear. But it was enough to edge JMM out, IMO.

Don't get me wrong either, like I said, Pac fought way too conservatively. But I am not about to say that he is not a better fighter than JMM 1 and Morales 1. His technical boxing progress is what got him to poster boy status. You think he would've beaten DLH, Cotto, Marg by brawling against them?

Here is what I was talking about regarding circling left.

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