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Old 11-02-2011, 04:47 PM #1
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Default NOOB mistake to base Toney/Lebedev on Jones/Lebedev

I see your typical mayweather obsessed noob like cash cow basing their predictions on the toney/lebedev fight off jones surprising performance (before the brutal K0) against Lebedev. . .

YES, while Toney isn't nearly as shot as Jones, he utilizes a COMPLETELY different style that favors Lebedev. . . Jones still is fleeter of hand and foot than toney and lebedev, so he was able to fight off the back-foot utilizing movement. He was able to keep Lebedev from planting his feet and letting his hands go, especially his deadly left hand; indeed, by forcing him to constantly change directions and "walk him down", he took away Lebedev's strengths.

Toney, however, will stand in the pocket and counter-punch and pick shots off. Lebedev will be able to plant his feet and set the left hand up off combinations. Toney just doesn't have the stamina, speed, or power to take advantage of his technique advantage. Sure, he will definitely snap Leb's head back a few times with some nice counters, but since Lebedev is a southpaw, and is left hand happy (toney is best at countering right hands), his youth, strength, and stamina will prevail. He will outwork Toney en route to a 9-3 decision.
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:49 PM #2
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As much as I want Toney to win this, I find it hard to disagree with you.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:01 PM #3
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I think Lebedev has a questionable chin. He gets easily frustrated & his workrate is pish!

James is in superb shape & has had months to prepare for this, what makes you think it'll be Toneys stamina coming into play?
Lebedev has been 12 rounds once.

Lebedev is a flat-footed southpaw slugger, Toney eats guys like him for breakfast.
Sure Toney is washed up but you have to take into account Lebedevs opponents, his best wins - Alexeev, Enzo & Jones.

Also people think Lebedev will K.O James lol, if a prime H/w Sam Peter couldn't K.O a fat, out of shape, unmotivated Toney then there is noway in hell Lebedev K.O's a highly motivated, in shape Toney.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:05 PM #4
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Lebedev is slow and your average cruiserweight. I don't even particularly think his power is what it is made out to be, my cat could K.O Roy at this stage, Enzo & Alexeev.

Toney is going to school him & K.O him.

Even a hideously out of shape Toney I fail to see how Lebedev beats him.
He comes in straight lines, he panics, has no work rate, don't use angles, has slow feet & his handspeed is average.

I think he's just getting this ridiculous hype because of his new trainer, that & most of his fanbase are Russian fascists.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:07 PM #5
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I see your typical mayweather obsessed noob like cash cow basing their predictions on the toney/lebedev fight off jones surprising performance (before the brutal K0) against Lebedev. . .

YES, while Toney isn't nearly as shot as Jones, he utilizes a COMPLETELY different style that favors Lebedev. . . Jones still is fleeter of hand and foot than toney and lebedev, so he was able to fight off the back-foot utilizing movement. He was able to keep Lebedev from planting his feet and letting his hands go, especially his deadly left hand; indeed, by forcing him to constantly change directions and "walk him down", he took away Lebedev's strengths.

Toney, however, will stand in the pocket and counter-punch and pick shots off. Lebedev will be able to plant his feet and set the left hand up off combinations. Toney just doesn't have the stamina, speed, or power to take advantage of his technique advantage. Sure, he will definitely snap Leb's head back a few times with some nice counters, but since Lebedev is a southpaw, and is left hand happy (toney is best at countering right hands), his youth, strength, and stamina will prevail. He will outwork Toney en route to a 9-3 decision.
Try not to get yourself too worked up.. Toney is a touch son of a ***** and he won't be backing off and he can take the best heavyweights punches... If lebedev wins this he is going to have to majorly outwork Toney .. you are acting like this isn't even going to be a fight.. you'll be very suprised
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:09 PM #6
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I'm picking Toney and maybe it's based more for sentimental reasons than logical ones, but this is the best argument I've seen as to why lebedev might win. However I don't think he will have the work rate to really capitalize on on Toneys lack of mobility and I think Toney's advantage of hand speed and defensive technique will pick Lebedev apart down the stretch. However I can envision Dennis getting a hometown decision due to him being the one moving forward...
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:10 PM #7
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If all Toney has to do is worry about being hit with one particular punch, in this case the left land, then I think he has a good chance to keep Lebedev off balance and falling over himself into Toney while he lays against the ropes and within the pocket. Lebedev does need to plant his feet and he also needs a bit of space to get his shots off, if he off balance and missing he may find himself eating clean shots when he doesn't expect them.

IMO Toney is not going to worry so much about the other shots in the combination, only the left hand that Leb is trying to setup. Toney is everything you said about being old, but I don't think he will ever have a problem avoiding one big shot especially when he knows that's all you really have.

Still though, there is no way to know how that weight loss will affect him so it's really hard to predict anything on James' part, Lebedev should be able to win this with workrate regardless of whether he has success with his big left. It resembles somewhat Toney-Jirov, althought I'm not expecting to see Toney anywere near the form he had then and Lebedev isn't as fast or active as Jirov...still, it's closer to this fight than Jones-Lebedev
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:11 PM #8
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Lebedev is slow and your average cruiserweight. I don't even particularly think his power is what it is made out to be, my cat could K.O Roy at this stage, Enzo & Alexeev.

Toney is going to school him & K.O him.

Even a hideously out of shape Toney I fail to see how Lebedev beats him.
He comes in straight lines, he panics, has no work rate, don't use angles, has slow feet & his handspeed is average.

I think he's just getting this ridiculous hype because of his new trainer, that & most of his fanbase are Russian fascists.
People need to stop confusing "thinner" with "in great shape".

Often... it's the opposite.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:11 PM #9
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Lebedev is slow and your average cruiserweight. I don't even particularly think his power is what it is made out to be, my cat could K.O Roy at this stage, Enzo & Alexeev.

Toney is going to school him & K.O him.

Even a hideously out of shape Toney I fail to see how Lebedev beats him.
He comes in straight lines, he panics, has no work rate, don't use angles, has slow feet & his handspeed is average.

I think he's just getting this ridiculous hype because of his new trainer, that & most of his fanbase are Russian fascists.
Exactly and James sees what Roy saw.. and thats an easy target... Bernard Hopkins would also probably love a fight with this guy because Lebedev is making a name for himself.. but he isn't going all the way and Toney will most likely stop the momentum of hype
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:15 PM #10
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Originally Posted by reedickyaluss View Post
People need to stop confusing "thinner" with "in great shape".

Often... it's the opposite.


You are right I probably shouldn't of said ''in great shape'' but for Toney at this age & stage of his career I guess it is!
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