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#1
Old 10-30-2011, 12:45 PM
IronDanHamza
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Default Where do you rank Harold Johnson at Heavyweight?

Where do you rank Harold Johnson as a Heavyweight?

Many people are unaware that he had a fair share of Heavyweight fights and actually has a pretty solid resume as a Heavyweight.

He obviously never won a Title at HW, being pretty difficult to do so back then. But he racked up some very good wins ***8216;above 175***8217;.

Of course, it***8217;s a tricky one to rank, with no Cruiserweight division at that particular time; if you couldn***8217;t make 175 you had no choice but to fight Heavyweight***8217;s.

In result, meaning he fought plenty of bouts that were ***8216;officially***8217; Heavyweight bouts that were pretty much Light Heavyweight fights.

For example, his wins over;

Ezzard Charles (Charles weighed in at 185, Johnson at 177)
Jimmy Bivins ( Bivins weighed in at 180, Johnson at 177)
Bob Satterfield 3 (Satterfield weighed in at 181, Johnson at 180)
Jimmy Slade x2 (Slade weighed in at 177 and 182, Johnson at 178 and 175 and a half)
Marty Marshall (Mashall weighed in at 179, Johnson at 174)

Now, personally, I credit most of these wins to his Light Heavyweight resume. Especially the ones against career Light Hevayweight***8217;s like himself.

Some do it this way, some don***8217;t and that***8217;s fine.

Some feel that if a fighter is over the weight limit then it***8217;s point blank credited to that weight, some like myself feel that if it***8217;s close and basically at that weight then they credit it to that weight. Especially if they***8217;re a career weight fighting another from that career weight. Of course things are different now.

Like I said, it***8217;s tricky because certain people credit things different. I remember a thread recently I can***8217;t remember who it was by but it was about the difficulty in crediting fights that are close to the weight but ***8216;officially***8217; in a different weight class I.e Duran, and Ortiz sometimes.

Anyway, I***8217;m rambling. Let***8217;s just say for arguments sake, credit those ***8216;official***8217; Heavyweight to his Heavyweight resume. Where do you rank him?

Let***8217;s not forget his excellent wins over Nino Valdez and Eddie Machen. Two of the very best wins on the great Sonny Liston***8217;s resume.

Take into consideration he was outweighed 12 Lbs in the Machen fight and an astonishing 34 Lbs in the Valdez fight.

His resume at ***8216;Heavyweight***8217; (By crediting all fights above 175as ***8216;Heavyweight***8217;;

Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Nino Valdez
Eddie Machen
Bob Satterfield
Marty Marhsall
Jimmy Sladex2
Etc

That***8217;s an impressive resume in my book.

The freak accident injury occurred in his fight with Joe Walcott, causing him to lose by a 3rd Round TKO. Allegedly being a closely contested fight despite the Heavy KD in the Second Round. Shame the fight was put to a halt so early and no rematch occurred.

He was also scheduled to fight Sonny Liston but had to withdraw through injury. Let***8217;s just say I think that injury was one hell of a blessing in disguise... Because the thought of Johnson trying to jab with Liston genuinely frightens me.

Anyway, again, I***8217;m rambling. Back to the point;

Where do you rank him at Heavyweight?

Is he one of the the best Heavyweight***8217;s to not win a title?

In what bracket do you feel he should be ranked?
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#2
Old 10-30-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Where do you rank Harold Johnson as a Heavyweight?

Many people are unaware that he had a fair share of Heavyweight fights and actually has a pretty solid resume as a Heavyweight.

He obviously never won a Title at HW, being pretty difficult to do so back then. But he racked up some very good wins ‘above 175’.

Of course, it’s a tricky one to rank, with no Cruiserweight division at that particular time; if you couldn’t make 175 you had no choice but to fight Heavyweight’s.

In result, meaning he fought plenty of bouts that were ‘officially’ Heavyweight bouts that were pretty much Light Heavyweight fights.

For example, his wins over;

Ezzard Charles (Charles weighed in at 185, Johnson at 177)
Jimmy Bivins ( Bivins weighed in at 180, Johnson at 177)
Bob Satterfield 3 (Satterfield weighed in at 181, Johnson at 180)
Jimmy Slade x2 (Slade weighed in at 177 and 182, Johnson at 178 and 175 and a half)
Marty Marshall (Mashall weighed in at 179, Johnson at 174)

Now, personally, I credit most of these wins to his Light Heavyweight resume. Especially the ones against career Light Hevayweight’s like himself.

Some do it this way, some don’t and that’s fine.

Some feel that if a fighter is over the weight limit then it’s point blank credited to that weight, some like myself feel that if it’s close and basically at that weight then they credit it to that weight. Especially if they’re a career weight fighting another from that career weight. Of course things are different now.

Like I said, it’s tricky because certain people credit things different. I remember a thread recently I can’t remember who it was by but it was about the difficulty in crediting fights that are close to the weight but ‘officially’ in a different weight class I.e Duran, and Ortiz sometimes.

Anyway, I’m rambling. Let’s just say for arguments sake, credit those ‘official’ Heavyweight to his Heavyweight resume. Where do you rank him?

Let’s not forget his excellent wins over Nino Valdez and Eddie Machen. Two of the very best wins on the great Sonny Liston’s resume.

Take into consideration he was outweighed 12 Lbs in the Machen fight and an astonishing 34 Lbs in the Valdez fight.

His resume at ‘Heavyweight’ (By crediting all fights above 175as ‘Heavyweight’;

Ezzard Charles
Jimmy Bivins
Nino Valdez
Eddie Machen
Bob Satterfield
Marty Marhsall
Jimmy Sladex2
Etc

That’s an impressive resume in my book.

The freak accident injury occurred in his fight with Joe Walcott, causing him to lose by a 3rd Round TKO. Allegedly being a closely contested fight despite the Heavy KD in the Second Round. Shame the fight was put to a halt so early and no rematch occurred.

He was also scheduled to fight Sonny Liston but had to withdraw through injury. Let’s just say I think that injury was one hell of a blessing in disguise... Because the thought of Johnson trying to jab with Liston genuinely frightens me.

Anyway, again, I’m rambling. Back to the point;

Where do you rank him at Heavyweight?

Is he one of the the best Heavyweight’s to not win a title?

In what bracket do you feel he should be ranked?
He's got a good resume of very solid contenders I think he should be around the 30 mark. A little lower than the likes of Baer etc.
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#3
Old 10-30-2011, 04:26 PM
IronDanHamza
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He's got a good resume of very solid contenders I think he should be around the 30 mark. A little lower than the likes of Baer etc.
Yeah he's certainly below Max Baer.

He has a win over argubally the best win on Rocky Marciano's resume.

Considering he never even reached the Crusier Weight Limit and fought most of his fights not even really close to the Cruiser weight limit his 'Heavyweight' resume is very impressive.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:36 PM
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Should he rank higher than David Tua at HW?
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#5
Old 10-30-2011, 04:54 PM
IronDanHamza
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Should he rank higher than David Tua at HW?
Hmmm, I'm not sure!

What do you think?
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:05 PM
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Hmmm, I'm not sure!

What do you think?
LOL... Dan, this thread reminds me of some banter we had some time back... lol,.. I still have a chuckle about that... I was testing your sense of humour..... seriously, I don't think at realistic ranking can be made here.... Unless the boxing equivalent of professor Alfred Einstein comes along that is.... I think Professor Mike Donovan can't match Alfred's I.Q... what do you reckon ??
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:19 PM
IronDanHamza
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LOL... Dan, this thread reminds me of some banter we had some time back... lol,.. I still have a chuckle about that... I was testing your sense of humour..... seriously, I don't think at realistic ranking can be made here.... Unless the boxing equivalent of professor Alfred Einstein comes along that is.... I think Professor Mike Donovan can't match Alfred's I.Q... what do you reckon ??
Why not?

When was that banter? My memory is really getting worse by the day.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:27 PM
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Why not?

When was that banter? My memory is really getting worse by the day.
Oh, I jokingly said that I didn't know this Harold Johnson dude...... knowing full well he is one of your favourites.... ah, memories...... Why can't I rate him at HW ????.... well let's just say there are a hell of a load of decent HW's..... I just won't live long enough to get close to a realistic top 50 or 100..... there are limits to my genius you know !!!!!!!!!!!!!... lol.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:29 PM
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Why not?

When was that banter? My memory is really getting worse by the day.
Yeah, well anyway, if you give me some names to compare I may have a go.... for starters, I have him below Bob Fitzsimmons////// ba-da-bing.
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Old 10-30-2011, 05:38 PM
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Yeah, well anyway, if you give me some names to compare I may have a go.... for starters, I have him below Bob Fitzsimmons////// ba-da-bing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Oh, I jokingly said that I didn't know this Harold Johnson dude...... knowing full well he is one of your favourites.... ah, memories...... Why can't I rate him at HW ????.... well let's just say there are a hell of a load of decent HW's..... I just won't live long enough to get close to a realistic top 50 or 100..... there are limits to my genius you know !!!!!!!!!!!!!... lol.
I genuinely can't remember that, mate. My memory is really deteriorating it's abit worrying.

Yeah, of course there are plenty of better Heavyweight's than Johnson, plenty.

But he has some pretty good wins there, no?

Not sure who he'd be around but I'd say he's atleast Top 40.
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