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#21
Old 10-19-2011, 09:27 AM
spyvsspy
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
I think you'll find that First Nations and other native communities would question your assertion that knowledge of their history and way of life were destroyed.

I assumed you were talking about objective knowledge and not tradition and culture by the way you compared it to the library of Alexandria.
Did the white man ever consider preserving the ''treasures" that they stole...considering that their most valuable information was probably in their art...also many writings that were left behind will never truly be understood considering the white man never gave a fook about understanding these unique and foreign people
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#22
Old 10-19-2011, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MANIAC310 View Post
is it older than the Sumerian sites? I thought those were 13,000 years old.

and when you say the sight might predate the "flood" are you referring to the Noah biblical flood where he puts Billions of animal species into an arch?



i dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.


for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.

many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.


almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)

there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.


my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"


specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.

the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.


you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.


the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])

Last edited by New England; 10-19-2011 at 09:36 AM..
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#23
Old 10-19-2011, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
i dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.


for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.

many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.


almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)

there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.


my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"


specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.

the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.


you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.


the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])
Your last paragraph reminds me of how ancient history students are taught mostly about the greeks/romans/egyptians civilizations when clearly the great civilizations in the americas rivaled them in comparison. Truth is we don't know much about the great american civilizations because the white man destroyed almost everything about them
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#24
Old 10-19-2011, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
i dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.


for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.

many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.


almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)

there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.


my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"


specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.

the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.


you seem like a smart lad
i wouldnt think you'd be willing to discount some of the most important texts ever produced as completely meaningless.


the more time goes by the more i believe that the history young people learn in school (espcially specifically american history and ancient // religious history) is intentionally creating ethnocentrism (the idea that one's group [racial, geographical, etc, is better than the others])
Very true. While much of the stories in the major religious texts are just that, stories, they all share many of the same events and figures, just with differing details sometimes on the specifics. You have to assume some of those stories are the explanations those people had for something that actually happened at the time.
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#25
Old 10-19-2011, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
i dont want to get into the subject too much, but in college i got the opportunity to read translations of many of the major texts from the major religions on the planet. game changer.


for instance, christianity and islam are based on judaism.

many of the stories you find in one bible show up in the other. literally. go check them out.


almost all major religions have a flood story
almost all of them. additionally, folk who had never had any contact with each other have flood stories. the logical line to draw is one between the stories showing up universally and their factual basis (especially one so pervasive as a worldwide flood// years of worldwide flooding and sea level rise.)

there was probably a flood, in other words. lots of them. major ones.
Human beings require water to survive. Lots of humans require lots of water. Therefore settlements built exclusively near large bodies of water. Large bodies of water flood, usually seasonally. Large floods are a common and deadly uncontrollable event. Therefore floods made their way into mythology.

A worldwide flood would have left actual evidence.

Quote:
my guess would be that during the end of the ice age the melting of glaciers and the formation of lakes and rivers and a higher coast (from ice melting and water being allowed to flow,) these people experienced catastrophic "floods"
The last glacial maximum was 20,000 years ago, pre-civilisation and pre-writing. I don't think that oral traditions were robust enough to last 10,000 years before these things could finally be written down. It's far more likely that flood mythology is based on the fact that local floods were a common feature of paleo and neolithic life ~ 10,000 years ago.

Quote:
specifics (two of every animal in a large wooden ship, for instance) dont concern me much.

the universal notion that floods // rising water and sea levels wiped out large groups of people all over the world at around the time of the end of the last ice ace (12-11k years ago) does.
Again I don't think that many of these flood traditions even go back that far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyvsspy
Did the white man ever consider preserving the ''treasures" that they stole...considering that their most valuable information was probably in their art...also many writings that were left behind will never truly be understood considering the white man never gave a fook about understanding these unique and foreign people
Natives didn't have writing in North America. Meso-America was different.
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#26
Old 10-19-2011, 09:55 AM
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LMAO the retardness here never fails me....there is fact and evidence of a flood...wether u believe it was from God to destroy the world and Noah built an arc is up to u...but there was a flood no doubt...wow
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#27
Old 10-19-2011, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Natives didn't have writing in North America. Meso-America was different.
When I say America I am speaking of the greater civilizations like the mayans not the smaller indian tribes.
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#28
Old 10-19-2011, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kbpoetree View Post
LMAO the retardness here never fails me....there is fact and evidence of a flood...wether u believe it was from God to destroy the world and Noah built an arc is up to u...but there was a flood no doubt...wow
Post evidence or STFU.

Youtube videos don't count.
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#29
Old 10-19-2011, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
Human beings require water to survive. Lots of humans require lots of water. Therefore settlements built exclusively near large bodies of water. Large bodies of water flood, usually seasonally. Large floods are a common and deadly uncontrollable event. Therefore floods made their way into mythology.

A worldwide flood would have left actual evidence.



The last glacial maximum was 20,000 years ago, pre-civilisation and pre-writing. I don't think that oral traditions were robust enough to last 10,000 years before these things could finally be written down. It's far more likely that flood mythology is based on the fact that local floods were a common feature of paleo and neolithic life ~ 10,000 years ago.



Again I don't think that many of these flood traditions even go back that far.



Natives didn't have writing in North America. Meso-America was different.

you make some decent points but i'm not sure you're getting all of the picture

the holocene era (the current interglacial period) is about 11k years old
there were glaciers covering much of north america and far outside of the arctic circle elsewhere as recently as that

some sources classifiy our era as "not an ice age" // interglacial only as far back as 8-9 thousand years ago.


human writing is about six-eight thousand years old, depending on who you talk to

but culture is far, far older.
no reason whatsoever that stories wouldnt last from the flooding that came from the end of the ice age.



worldwide isnt really a context that would be understood by ancient peoples

if their region flooded, they would probably equate that with a worldwide flood

and glacial flooding and sea level rise has left evidence all over the planet.

it wasnt likely a steady event, either. rivers and lakes were probably formed in days or weeks when glaciers and land began to melt and break away and release huge quantities of water

and you have your flood. there's evidence of this stuff throughout much of the Mediterranean and elsewhere. it happened, and humans were certainly around to witness it and at a stage where they would be talking about it and trying to make sense about it and pass it on. it might not look like the fictional account in the bible, but there was a significant effect on the planet that ancient peoples would have felt when the last ice age ended.


like i said, its been a long time since i read about it, but the earliest flood myth i can think of i believe is mesopotamian. they were one of the first people to write things down. The Epic of Gilgamesh is the name of the only piece of their stuff i have read.
**** is mad ****ing old

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Edit that hooplah about floods like a white pussy or suffer a horrid fisting.
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