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#21
Old 10-15-2011, 08:10 AM
Alx.
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Nah, if he's fat and talentless he'll be judged as such. I wouldn't worry though, there aren't any beacons of light on America's heavyweight horizon and may not be for awhile.
there's deontay wilder, the kid is pretty good tbh, just needs to step up to some competition
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#22
Old 10-15-2011, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by calmdown View Post
there's deontay wilder, the kid is pretty good tbh, just needs to step up to some competition
While he seems athletically gifted he makes a ton of mistakes and his competition is abysmal. He hasn't been boxing very long and will need a lot of seasoning if he ever hopes to make a real impact at the top level, even against todays heavyweights. The one thing many of them have that he doesn't is extensive amateur careers. And while I consider the division void of any real talent, that experience is invaluable against a fighter like Wilder.
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#23
Old 10-15-2011, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

Sorry son, but it's only subjective to the unobjective viewer. To the fan who refuses to acknowledge that todays fighters (most) are exactly as I described. I have no problem acknowledging eastern Europe has a stronghold over most of the heavyweight division. Unfortunately with either your anti American agenda or your lack historical boxing knowledge you're blind to the facts that most of these fighters today lack skills and are out of shape.

I won't even bother showing you how fat todays fighters are, thats undeniable. But lets take a look at todays heir apparent Robert Helenius and Tim Witherspoon when he was 15-0 and up against an all time great. I dare anyone to tell me the difference in skills is not abundantly clear. Witherspoon parry's, moves his head, works the body, slips punches etc., etc. Helenius against a less than great Peter....eh, not so much.




Pirao, where you at bro? How about some analysis on the two video's? Not trying to bust your chops to much here, but the difference in talent is obvious, no?
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#24
Old 10-15-2011, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
Pirao, where you at bro? How about some analysis on the two video's? Not trying to bust your chops to much here, but the difference in talent is obvious, no?
Where am I at? What you think I have nothing else to do other than reading your BS all day? Bust my chops, ha, like you could, you give yourself too much credit, bro

So, what are those videos supposed to prove exactly? We don't know how good Helenius is yet, and fighters careers don't follow the same timeline in any case, so saying they're both 15-0 so Helenius should be doing the same things doesn't work, what are you trying to prove exactly, I ask you again? Oh, BTW, Helenius fights in a completely different way to Whiterspoon, him doing things differently is not surprising. The only way we would know who is actually better will be when we can compare their careers.

In the meantime, I'll ask you a simple question. Since according to you the videos are "undeniable proof, the skill difference is obvious to see and all that", are all the "experts" and boxers that thought Lacy was going to destroy Calzaghe before the fight, actually idiots, or does it mean just watching the videos doesn't mean as much as you're trying to make them out to be? And like Lacy, there are dozens of other examples of overrated fighters because they "looked good" on video, so yeah, your "talent" arguments that cannot be proven, can still kiss my ass
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#25
Old 10-15-2011, 10:30 AM
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Here's the reality for you. Heavyweights today come in overweight, lack stamina, defense, don't parry, don't throw in combination and rarely work the body anymore. If you really want me to prove this I can post endless video's. This is not subjective, it's a fact. And again, this has nothing to do with nationality, that's just your agenda talking.
It seems like there's nothing u can say... Just leave it

Imagine if some giant mofo like Dwight Howard had turned to boxing... He has a long reach, explosive, coodinated... I mean really?
Hell, he might have even had better footwork...

But the NBA thing doesn't count becuz eastern Europe has soccer.... That's basically the same thing.... supposedly
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#26
Old 10-15-2011, 10:48 AM
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It seems like there's nothing u can say... Just leave it

Imagine if some giant mofo like Dwight Howard had turned to boxing... He has a long reach, explosive, coodinated... I mean really?
Hell, he might have even had better footwork...

But the NBA thing doesn't count becuz eastern Europe has soccer.... That's basically the same thing.... supposedly
Of course it's not the same thing! Football is much bigger than basketball and the #1 sport in the world.

Football>>>>>>Basketball
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#27
Old 10-15-2011, 11:06 AM
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I don't see any Americans crying. But I do see Europeans pretending that Americans are crying. Because you want us to cry. Because you want us to care. Because you cared when we were on top and you're mad that we don't show the same respect back.

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#28
Old 10-15-2011, 11:18 AM
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Or will they eventually come to terms with the fact that they no longer dominate?

As we all know, since the Klitschkos started their rule, many americans have been trying to discredit them and make all kind of excuses as to why americans no longer are on top (mainly NBA and NFL blablabla ). Since considering the eastern european domination has no end sight (just look at the prospects that have already turned pro and the ones coming through the amateurs), do you think they'll finally come to accept that eastern europeans can be great HWs too, or will they keep crying and making excuses forever?



if you dont think the talent in the NFL and NBA would turn the current HW division on its head you're being foolish


can you imagine a 6'9", 260 lb prospect who can run like a deer and jump out of the building entering boxing?

the AVERAGE player in the NBA is 6'9", and an average level of talent in the NBA is lightyears beyond anybody in the top ten at HW outside of the klitschko brothers.


most of these guys today are literally a few steps away from obesity and they dont have an athletic bone in their bodies.

the american ones would be playing football or basketball and not taking punches in the head if they had the talent.

i have this discussion all the time
you arent familliar with the NFL or the NBA if you dont think that the level of pure talent in those leagues would totally overhaul HW boxing if they all boxed in their youths


you cant even be serious

the only explaination is bitterness

the nfl (and in my opinion the NBA most of all) and other high level non-boxing athletics in adulthood and as professionals as well as in youth and schoolastics are almost single handedly responsible for the lack of high level american talent in HW boxing.



that's just the way it is

you can make the same arguement about other sports, certainly.
european football (soccer) certainly robs many countries of what would be boxing talent

but soccer // football players are not exclusively HW

i'll repeat, (and i'm not exxaggerating at all
the AVERAGE player in the NBA is well over 200 lbs (in shape,) and six feet nine inches tall. two inches taller than vitali klitschko.
this is the average player.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
Of course it's not the same thing! Football is much bigger than basketball and the #1 sport in the world.

Football>>>>>>Basketball


Soccer players are NOT seven feet tall with superman proportions

dwight howard is seven feet tall and build like somebody drew him for a comic book.


thats the basic argument


all of these guys are HW
thats where big american talent has gone


what are you not getting?


this is dwight howard.





do i need to show you a picture of chris arreola?
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#30
Old 10-15-2011, 11:33 AM
edgarg
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Originally Posted by BulgariasFinest View Post
Talent level could be ****, but the excuse of NFL and NBA cannot be the reason. It is the same for Europeans to say that most of the talent goes on to play football (soccer), which is true because of how popular football has always and will always be here. There is talent from ALL over the world, and boxing is and should be racially blind.
You don't find many heavyweights in soccer, they are usually middle to smaller sized, much faster than heavyweights etc....
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