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#21
Old 10-06-2011, 12:21 AM
jaded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dancovboxer View Post
May I ask what your macro's was during your off season?
How many g's of fat & carbs was in your diet, seeing as your protein intake was so low.
well...roughly...I get quite a few calories daily from mixed nuts and seeds (trail mix)...they are the most highly compact sources of calories available and perfect in ratio of protein/fibrous carbohydrates and good essential fat. I buy a 1 kilo bag for under $7. and that lasts me 4 days. That's about 1,000 calories and 40 grams of protein a day...I basically snack on it handfuls at a time throughout the day (I don't even usually know I'm doing it). The other 1500-1800 calories and 80 grams of protein a day I eat come from 2 servings of fish a day/humos (chickpeas) whole wheat pita bread/veggies/yam rice/pasta/fruits in variations and variety. Very easy diet..no chicken or beef...all quality foods. That would be approx 120 grams of protein a day and 2500-2800 calories...but I think I'm taking in around 100 grams of protein which is more than enough for my size. I'm usually giving it my all in the gym.

oh...I forgot..I mix the equivalent of 6 egg whites and 4 ounces of soy bev into a shake daily...add another 25 grams of protein and I don't know how many calories...maybe 200 so I'm probably still higher than I need to be with my protein intake...old habits die hard...but I probably eat slightly fewer nuts than I mentioned. This is all an estimate..I have never actually calculated it exactly.

Last edited by jaded; 10-06-2011 at 12:41 AM.
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#22
Old 10-06-2011, 12:51 AM
Die Antwoord
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Anyone who tries to tell you that X is right or Y is wrong is probably a moron. There are so many differing view points and beliefs and there are many right answers and they all depend on you. I mean seriously, this guy trying to argue that you can't metabolize X amount of protein?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example, you can find brilliant people who argue things such as: Quote from Lyle McDonald - The Ketogenic Diet:
-To briefly recap, during the first weeks of ketosis, approximately 75 grams of glucose must
be produced (the other 18 grams of glucose coming from the conversion of glycerol to glucose) to
satisfy the brainís requirements of ~100 grams of glucose per day. After approximately 3 weeks
of ketosis, the brainís glucose requirements drop to approximately 40 grams of glucose. Of this,
18 grams are derived from the conversion of glycerol, leaving 25 grams of glucose to be made
from protein.
Since 58% of all dietary protein will appear in the bloodstream as glucose (3), we can
determine how much dietary protein is required by looking at different protein intakes and how
much glucose is produced.

Protein intake and grams of glucose produced *
Protein intake (grams) converted into Glucose (grams)
50---> 27
100-----> 58
125----->72.5
150----->87
175------->101.5
200-------->116
* Assuming a 58% conversion rate


Summery: dieters should consume zero Carbs on 150g protein diet since protein will provide 87g glucose by process called gluconeogenesis and other glucose will come from fat burning or you should lower protein intake and increase glucose intake from food.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now these are guys with biology phds...not some old dude who talked to a former body builder 20 mother ****in years ago. People need to figure out what works for them because thats the key. I personally eat about 5,000-6500 calories a day, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 grams of protein, work out 2 times a day, run on an empty stomach in the morning, lift at night and literally in between never stop eating. I'm 6'4, fight at 175, have a 31 inch waste, run a 5 minute mile, and bench tops out somewhere around 280-290 although I go more for endurance.

My friend is jacked as hell, eats about 2500 calories a day, lifts 3x a week for about 45 minutes a time. Benches somewhere in the 400's....

Again find what works for you. There are probably multiple ways that work for you, find one you enjoy. I personally enjoy working out and eating so I do something that makes that possible. Don't listen to people that say somethings wrong or somethings definitely right. Our bodies are different, unless they studied your kidneys...they have no clue whatyou can break down. Oh and monitor how much water you drink.
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#23
Old 10-06-2011, 01:40 AM
jaded
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die Antwoord View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
For example, you can find brilliant people who argue things such as: Quote from Lyle McDonald - The Ketogenic Diet:
-To briefly recap, during the first weeks of ketosis, approximately 75 grams of glucose must
be produced (the other 18 grams of glucose coming from the conversion of glycerol to glucose) to
satisfy the brain***8217;s requirements of ~100 grams of glucose per day. After approximately 3 weeks
of ketosis, the brain***8217;s glucose requirements drop to approximately 40 grams of glucose. Of this,
18 grams are derived from the conversion of glycerol, leaving 25 grams of glucose to be made
from protein.
Since 58% of all dietary protein will appear in the bloodstream as glucose (3), we can
determine how much dietary protein is required by looking at different protein intakes and how
much glucose is produced.

Protein intake and grams of glucose produced *
Protein intake (grams) converted into Glucose (grams)
50---> 27
100-----> 58
125----->72.5
150----->87
175------->101.5
200-------->116
* Assuming a 58% conversion rate


Summery: dieters should consume zero Carbs on 150g protein diet since protein will provide 87g glucose by process called gluconeogenesis and other glucose will come from fat burning or you should lower protein intake and increase glucose intake from food.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
ok...so you cut and past a quote from a bodybuilding forum because??? This is supposed to back something up???

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...#post757893673

I personally eat about 5,000-6500 calories a day, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 350-400 grams of protein, work out 2 times a day, run on an empty stomach in the morning, lift at night and literally in between never stop eating. I'm 6'4, fight at 175, have a 31 inch waste, run a 5 minute mile, and bench tops out somewhere around 280-290

...dude this old man out-benches you...and I weigh the same as you....how can you be only 175 lbs eating 5-6500 calories a day? 350 lbs heavyweight power lifters eat 7,000 calories a day. Your diet and cut and paste don't make sense.

This poster is your height...eats about 1/2 as much as you and takes in a fraction of the protein you do and is about 100 lbs bigger than you...all with 100 grams of protein a day. It would be interesting to know how your strength compares. I think you might be doing something wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big BRICKS View Post
I try to end up taking 3000-3500 calories in per day, my diet isn't too strict but I eat clean. I eat 7-9 small meals per day and use a water + whey protein supplement with nearly every one of my meals..

I've been eating 100g of protein a day easily since early highschool and I'm in my mid 20s now, not that expensive to eat like I do and I'm 6'4 270lbs

Last edited by jaded; 10-06-2011 at 02:58 AM.
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#24
Old 10-06-2011, 01:41 AM
Banderivets
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Originally Posted by Mr. Roach View Post
1. 100g is NOT alot of protein.

2. You make it sound like there's only protein in meats. Bread, pasta, rice etc all contains 10g protein/100g, roughly. And then you have dairy products, eggs, nuts, beans etc.

3. There is no proof what so ever that a protein intake of around 200g a day would be dangerous for a healthy individual.

4. Protein is good for us. If studies on weight loss has showed anything with consistency, it is that diets with higher protein intake has resulted in better body composition then diets with lower protein intake.

5. The biggest concern with protein intake today is environmental effects and suffering of animals.
2. There is 5.2 grams of protein in 150g of either white or brown rice, so its not a significant source. 12 grams in some pastas at 100grams. Most carb sources such as pasta, rice and bread, are not significant sources of protein. If you eat these with the intention of protein intake the volumes that you would need to consume in order for the protein levels to be of a significant value would be detrimental to your health.

3. There is plenty MEDICAL research proving that excess protein intake taxes your kidneys, just as many other things do.

4. Protein is not good, is ESSENTIAL, the question is, how much protein is appropriate.

Last edited by Banderivets; 10-06-2011 at 01:45 AM.
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#25
Old 10-06-2011, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jaded View Post
You don't absorb protein son...you metabolize it..that is...you break it down and use it as building blocks depending on how much rebuilding is needed which is only determined by how much you break down your muscle and how much stress your body recognizes. No matter how much extra building blocks you give your body beyond what it needs...it will only/can only use what is needed to do the job and nothing more. And you can only break down the body so much before you are over training and your central nervous system begins to shut down.
I think this is key.

Your body will only use as much protein as it needs in order to repair damaged tissue, the excess does nothing but tax the kidneys. And it is proven that it does.

Logic would infer that as your body mass increases, your body would require more protein as overall more tissue would be damaged during exercise, but given some base value, lets say 60g, unless your putting on some unrealistic amount of mass, you would not deviate much from the 60g.
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#26
Old 10-06-2011, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by OldMoney91 View Post
EDIT:Oh and for the OP: 100 grams of protein isnt hard to consume at all. There's about 9 grams of protein in a glass of milk. You drink 2 for breakfast, 2 for lunch, 1 for supper and 1 before bed and you just got yourself 54 grams of protein just from milk. Then add in the proteins from tuna, fish, bread, rice, pasta, nuts, chicken, eggs, etc and you are well over 100.
Trying to think of realistic diets.

Most people will have the ****s if they drink that much milk lactose intolerant or not. 6 glasses of milk, that's 3 litters. I would say not realistic.

As for the tuna, fish, bread rice....I already provided examples, and once again, rice, bread and pasta are not significant sources of protein.

And yes it is not difficult if you make the conscience effort to do so. However most people, population at average does not think "must eat 100g of protein today" regular diet would suggest that they do not consume that much.
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#27
Old 10-06-2011, 02:19 AM
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I think the key issue here is that people have the general conception that somehow you need a lot of protein for major gains.

It is true that you need extra if exercising, but calories are just as essential for growth.

Yes some serious body builders take 350g of protein a day.

However has it been proven that those 350g are actually necessary. I bet that if they maintained the calorie intake and took 200g of protein their results would be the same...

but because people want to gain rapidly, they never bother to experiment.


From personal experience my muscle mass gains where more influenced by overall calorie intake vs protein.

I went on lean protein diets and cut out the calories and it did f*ck alls for my gains, even though the protein intake was very high.

The calorie intake was above what I needed to sustain, but any time I actually increased calories substantially is when I started to gain.
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#28
Old 10-06-2011, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Ukr_Alex View Post
I think the key issue here is that people have the general conception that somehow you need a lot of protein for major gains.

It is true that you need extra if exercising, but calories are just as essential for growth.

Yes some serious body builders take 350g of protein a day.

However has it been proven that those 350g are actually necessary. I bet that if they maintained the calorie intake and took 200g of protein their results would be the same...

but because people want to gain rapidly, they never bother to experiment.


From personal experience my muscle mass gains where more influenced by overall calorie intake vs protein.

I went on lean protein diets and cut out the calories and it did f*ck alls for my gains, even though the protein intake was very high.

The calorie intake was above what I needed to sustain, but any time I actually increased calories substantially is when I started to gain.
You're right...and all people need to do is test things out 3 - 6 months to know exactly what is going on. It always good to read and test out various diets and forms of training...you will always know what works quickly and you won't need any studies to convince you of anything. And you always have to beware of someone who wants to sell you product.
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#29
Old 10-06-2011, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Ukr_Alex View Post
2. There is 5.2 grams of protein in 150g of either white or brown rice, so its not a significant source. 12 grams in some pastas at 100grams. Most carb sources such as pasta, rice and bread, are not significant sources of protein. If you eat these with the intention of protein intake the volumes that you would need to consume in order for the protein levels to be of a significant value would be detrimental to your health.

3. There is plenty MEDICAL research proving that excess protein intake taxes your kidneys, just as many other things do.

4. Protein is not good, is ESSENTIAL, the question is, how much protein is appropriate.
Every bag of rice I buy states somewhere around 8-9g/100g. Of course you don't eat them primarily for the protein, but it adds up. 100g isn't much.

Oh really? Please show me all this research. In the study jaded posted by mistake you could read this for example:

Quote:
A common misconception about excess protein in the diet is that it can cause kidney damage; excess protein cannot cause kidney damage even though it does make the kidneys work harder. When protein is metabolized nitrogen is a by - product; the kidneys work to remove the extra nitrogen from the body. As of yet, no studies have found an high rate of kidney problems in strength athletes as would be expected if too much protein caused kidney damage. Also, Zaragoza et al. (1987) studied animals with very high protein intakes for more than half their life span and found no serious adverse effects.

I know it's essential. In terms of pure needs, I'd say not much at all. And it depends on the of the quality of the protein, but less then 100g for sure. For optimal gains for someone who lifts weights, more then 100.

Last edited by Bring It On; 10-06-2011 at 03:44 AM.
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#30
Old 10-06-2011, 03:43 AM
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You don't absorb protein son...you metabolize it..that is...you break it down and use it as building blocks depending on how much rebuilding is needed which is only determined by how much you break down your muscle and how much stress your body recognizes. No matter how much extra building blocks you give your body beyond what it needs...it will only/can only use what is needed to do the job and nothing more. And you can only break down the body so much before you are over training and your central nervous system begins to shut down.

I couldn't care less what you read in my post or where you stopped reading. I have no reason to fake my experience with weight training or how long I have been doing so here...believe what you want. But I have put it to the test and know pro athletes who have done the same. I suggest you do the same before you comment and a little more research before you call me a liar.
Well, English is my second language so that might be the wrong term. But I know what happens to protein when ingested. So, what are you meaning with "it's wasted"? It passes right through your system or the protein in excess of 1kg/kg bodyweight turns into energy?

There are plenty of studies to support the theory that a higher protein intake results in greater muscle gains. Testing things out yourself is good, but it's very tough to really know what effect it had because there are so many other variables involved. I'd rather see the results gathered from groups of people monitored by professionals, and those results should definitely be the ones general guidelines are based upon. Not personal experience.
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