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#21
Old 03-06-2007, 06:28 PM
Kid Achilles
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I love the Rock, he's one of my favorites, but I've always thought Dempsey was too quick, slick, and mean for him. Unlike his modern counterpart, Tyson, Dempsey was a quick handed, nimble footed KO machine who actually had balls of steel. The mental matched the physical.

Marciano can hit Dempsey with his best punches, maybe knock his teeth out, but the guy is gonna keep coming like he did against Firpo. Marciano often got wild when he had an opponent hurt and I can see Dempsey surving one of his bullrushed by the skin of his teeth and slipping in a big counterpunch while Marciano is going to town that spells the begining of the end for the Rock.

Dempsey is IMO the most underrated heavyweight on this forum. I think he's no lower than top five based on ability. You can put him lower for accomplishments but no one had that combination of speed, power, chin, heart, and all around skill (schooled in in and out fighting). Tyson comes close but lacks the heart and infighting skills.
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#22
Old 03-06-2007, 06:54 PM
Dempsey 1919
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Originally Posted by Kid Achilles View Post
I love the Rock, he's one of my favorites, but I've always thought Dempsey was too quick, slick, and mean for him. Unlike his modern counterpart, Tyson, Dempsey was a quick handed, nimble footed KO machine who actually had balls of steel. The mental matched the physical.

Marciano can hit Dempsey with his best punches, maybe knock his teeth out, but the guy is gonna keep coming like he did against Firpo. Marciano often got wild when he had an opponent hurt and I can see Dempsey surving one of his bullrushed by the skin of his teeth and slipping in a big counterpunch while Marciano is going to town that spells the begining of the end for the Rock.

Dempsey is IMO the most underrated heavyweight on this forum. I think he's no lower than top five based on ability. You can put him lower for accomplishments but no one had that combination of speed, power, chin, heart, and all around skill (schooled in in and out fighting). Tyson comes close but lacks the heart and infighting skills.
What about Louis?
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#23
Old 03-06-2007, 09:36 PM
Kid Achilles
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Louis lacked a chin. I mean his chin wasn't glass, but it was inferior to Dempsey's or Tyson's IMO. He is tied with Ali for third for me though. What made Louis great was his perfect punch technique and his accuracy, coupled with his physical gifts. He didn't telegraph his shots, and when he landed he landed right on the button most times. He also had very quick hands and a huge punch, but the chin was his only weakness (and even then it was solid, like Ali's power).

Ali lacked power. By lacked I mean it was only good, not great. Ali with a huge punch would obviously be the greatest P4P fighter of all time, no questions asked, you'd have to be one bold guy to state otherwise.

Dempsey had quickness, a chin, power, and heart. Even his stamina was not bad, but he threw so many hard punches with everything behind them that he expended his energy fairly quickly. If I had to give prime Dempsey a weakness, I guess it's stamina. If he didn't finish you off within the first half of a fight, chances are he'd only beat you via UD. He'd never end up too exhausted to fight, but his punches lost some of their effect later in a fight (unlike Frazier or Marciano). Solid stamina but exceptional everything else.
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#24
Old 03-06-2007, 09:48 PM
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marciano hit a lot harder than dempsey. dempsey had to knock his opponents down many, times ( willard 7 times for example) to stop them from getting back up. marciano only had to hit u once, and that's with much more padded gloves than they had in dempsey's time. rocco had much better stamina than dempsey. dempsey has the better skills and quicker hands, however ezzard charles had both better skills and quicker hands and it didn't stop him getting beat by marciano, the second time by knockout.
if this fight had ever happened, both men were going to the hospital after with broken bones. dempsey would get the better of the rock early, probably knock him down two, maybe three times, but i see the rock getting up and as dempsey starts to gas, laying a terrible beating on poor jack. the rock absorbed a lot of punishment in the first charles fight and it didn't stop him coming. marciano stops dempsey late, in the fight of the century
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#25
Old 03-07-2007, 01:48 AM
Mick Hucknall
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It would probably be fight of the century. Both were relentless and always on the offence would make for great viewing
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#26
Old 03-07-2007, 02:47 AM
realheavyhands
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dempsey was blessed with the speed to make a puncher explosive
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#27
Old 03-07-2007, 07:10 AM
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it very hard to say because Demspy time the gloves where different the Rocky's time.

so you cant really compare there power because if Rocky had the small gloves he probably could have KOed Dempsy due his high rate workout but you really cant tell i give rocky the edge in this one.

Rocky punch are stronger in whole the fight while any other fighter is decrease exponantional in the later rounds
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#28
Old 03-07-2007, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by butterfly1964 View Post
Marciano definetely had more stamina, but how do you know he could take it more? Dempsey had amazing recuperative powers. Also heart would be equal. For some fighters, after a certain point heart is not measurable, and both these guys had all the heart you could want. Dempsey was a fast starter, probably the fastest starter in the history of boxing. Marciano was a traditionally slow starter and very vulnerable in the early rounds. Dempsey was able to hammer Jess Willard around the ring, whose chin was much better than Marciano's. If Dempsey hit Marciano with those cat-quick blows of dynamite, Marciano couldn't stay on his feet. I'd say Dempsey takes him out early in no more than four rounds. If Marciano gets past the six round, then he wins, but I doubt the fight would last under the fury of Dempsey's attack.
I dont ''know'' if he could take more, i try to measure and look at it closely. Heart can't be equal and isn't measured either. There will always be one man that has more heart than the other(That doesn't mean the other doesn have heart). I think Marciano could handle diversity more than Dempsey. When he had his nose ripped open and gave everything he had to actually win, the coming back after going down parts etc. Dempsey had his moments in his career too, but Rocky's actions were simply more impressive.
I agree Marciano was a slow starter, but that is just a strategy. Im sure he would adapt to Dempsey style right away, after all, Rocky had an iron punch in the whole 15 rounds. He had quite a few first round knockouts and some of them were against very good opponents.
And i don't agree Willard had a better chin than Marciano. That's just an opinion, but i do think Rocky was harder to hit than Willard, after all, Willard was way past his prime in that fight, and got jumped upon by Dempsey right after he got dropped everytime.
I think that Dempsey would have his hands full, a bit too full because of Marciano's relentless attack after his best rounds. He'd probably knock Marciano to the canvas a few times in the early goings of the fight, but man, that would take A LOT out of a guy..trying to knock Rocky down over and over again. Because Marciano is gonna get up, and fight back. I think he would survive Jack Dempsey and come back late to ko him. I really respect both fighters, it would be a great fight. We can only dream.
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#29
Old 03-07-2007, 03:45 PM
Kid Achilles
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I think Dempsey's heart was just as good as Marciano's. Marciano was never homeless fighting just to get his next meal. Marciano fought to gain recognition and to escape a dull working class lifestyle, but the guy was never in danger of starving to death, unlike Dempsey, and had his family helping him out into his 20's. Dempsey was homeless at the age of 15-16 or so and was as hungry and courageous as any fighter who ever lived IMO.

A civilized man could never understand that kind of background. Even a guy like Tyson who may have had it kind of rough and ran with gangs at times, he wasn't sleeping on the street, fighting to avoid being raped or mugged when he was a skinny teenager.

Dempsey had it the roughest growing up of any of the heavyweight champions IMO, and his character and inner strength reflected that. He proved his toughness against Firpo, Brennan, and in hanging in there and continuing to fight when he was malnourished and suffering losses and bad management early in his career.
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#30
Old 03-07-2007, 04:59 PM
Dempsey 1919
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Achilles View Post
I think Dempsey's heart was just as good as Marciano's. Marciano was never homeless fighting just to get his next meal. Marciano fought to gain recognition and to escape a dull working class lifestyle, but the guy was never in danger of starving to death, unlike Dempsey, and had his family helping him out into his 20's. Dempsey was homeless at the age of 15-16 or so and was as hungry and courageous as any fighter who ever lived IMO.

A civilized man could never understand that kind of background. Even a guy like Tyson who may have had it kind of rough and ran with gangs at times, he wasn't sleeping on the street, fighting to avoid being raped or mugged when he was a skinny teenager.

Dempsey had it the roughest growing up of any of the heavyweight champions IMO, and his character and inner strength reflected that. He proved his toughness against Firpo, Brennan, and in hanging in there and continuing to fight when he was malnourished and suffering losses and bad management early in his career.
...
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