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#11
Old 09-23-2011, 03:08 PM
Everywhere
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post
When's the last time Manny fought someone with a good jab?

Not criticizing MP...just seriously asking.

Side note: I think Naazim's plan was good in turning Manny that way. Pac looked uncomfortable and inactive.
except for the part where Mosley forgot he had two arms
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#12
Old 09-23-2011, 03:12 PM
ghns1133
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Originally Posted by JoeyNumbers View Post
Vs Pac. Use reach. Keep him on ropes if you are bigger. Don't engage when he wants to engage. Engage and hold. Body punch. pot shot & hold. time his rhythm (his bouncing) to catch him coming in. Use his aggression against him.

Vs Floyd. Intelligent pressure. Don't waste excessive energy but keep pressure and punch output high. Change your timing up (for example rather than 1-2-3.. go 1-2--3). Keep him on ropes. Counter his counter right (take it away). Protect self at all times. Counter his lead hooks. Gauge your distance carefully (takes away lead right). Body punch him when he on ropes. Use effective jab.
good stuff

the people that think u have to box may r crazy there are only a few fighters in history that could outbox floyd at 147

but if u intelignetly pressure him.....

roberto duran would be floyds kriptonite
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#13
Old 09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
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bump...........
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#14
Old 09-23-2011, 03:16 PM
Gino Ros
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Originally Posted by JoeyNumbers View Post
Vs Pac. Use reach. Keep him on ropes if you are bigger. Don't engage when he wants to engage. Engage and hold. Body punch. pot shot & hold. time his rhythm (his bouncing) to catch him coming in. Use his aggression against him.

Vs Floyd. Intelligent pressure. Don't waste excessive energy but keep pressure and punch output high. Change your timing up (for example rather than 1-2-3.. go 1-2--3). Keep him on ropes. Counter his counter right (take it away). Protect self at all times. Counter his lead hooks. Gauge your distance carefully (takes away lead right). Body punch him when he on ropes. Use effective jab.
I think that is a near impossibility at this point.

The problem is that pressure fighters have a natural mindset that gets them frustrated when they are not landin. or not landing clean.

And guys who are not "natural" pressure fighters will be completely ineffective because Floyd is an exceptional inside fighter. He was tearing Hatton up inside. Remember how Hatton said "If Floyd tries to fight me inside, he'll get eaten". And then, after the fight, Hatton said "He's very clever inside. The way he moves his body and uses his elbows".

That is an underrated part of Floyd's game. You are not going to train for 8 weeks and suddenly become a better inside fighter than Floyd is right now.

Castillo had some success because he had gone hundreds of rounds with JCC.

I will bump the lengthy thread on how to beat mayweather.
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#15
Old 09-23-2011, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post
I think that is a near impossibility at this point.

The problem is that pressure fighters have a natural mindset that gets them frustrated when they are not landin. or not landing clean.

And guys who are not "natural" pressure fighters will be completely ineffective because Floyd is an exceptional inside fighter. He was tearing Hatton up inside. Remember how Hatton said "If Floyd tries to fight me inside, he'll get eaten". And then, after the fight, Hatton said "He's very clever inside. The way he moves his body and uses his elbows".

That is an underrated part of Floyd's game. You are not going to train for 8 weeks and suddenly become a better inside fighter than Floyd is right now.

Castillo had some success because he had gone hundreds of rounds with JCC.

I will bump the lengthy thread on how to beat mayweather.
for the fighters around today

but duran and basilio would take may to school

if pac's natural inclination was to be a skilled presure fighter rather than a boxer/puncher

i would give him a slight edge

and dont use hatton as an example

i said skilled/inteligent agression haton had no headmovement and wasnt nearly as good a combo and body puncher as jcc, basilio, duran etc.
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#16
Old 09-23-2011, 03:24 PM
Gino Ros
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Originally Posted by Everywhere View Post
except for the part where Mosley forgot he had two arms
Very true.

Without getting into a *****/******* war, what reinforced for me that Pacquiao can't beat Floyd is how ineffective Manny was when you gave him a bit of movement.

I reflect back to the Cotto fight. I had assumed that was because manny didn't want to stop Cotto. No. Rethinking it and seeing the Mosley fight, and replaying the Marquez fights, it's because manny COULD not stop those guys.

If Floyd still has legs, he has at least three ways to beat Manny.

1) Movement w accurate potshooting. Turn him all night.
2) Potshot/clinch. release, short shot, clinch.
3) Walk forward behind clamshell/high guard. pump jab and lead right. Force manny to take a step back. manny has no power when moving backwards. he likes to explode off his legs, which is where his power comes from. Think Winky-esque.
4) Ugly, dirty fighting. Against the ropes. Head, elbows, short digs to the body. Smother Manny's power. Super-frustrate Manny. Using superior tactics and strength.
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#17
Old 09-23-2011, 03:26 PM
Gino Ros
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Originally Posted by ghns1133 View Post
for the fighters around today

but duran and basilio would take may to school

.
Yes, agreed. For the fighters around today.

It's no coincidence that the best inside fighters today include Hopkins, Toney and Mayweather. guys who are old-school in their approach.

There are too many guys around trying to fight like Haye and Khan. They're in love with their athleticism.
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#18
Old 09-23-2011, 03:27 PM
JoeyNumbers
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post
I think that is a near impossibility at this point.

The problem is that pressure fighters have a natural mindset that gets them frustrated when they are not landin. or not landing clean.

And guys who are not "natural" pressure fighters will be completely ineffective because Floyd is an exceptional inside fighter. He was tearing Hatton up inside. Remember how Hatton said "If Floyd tries to fight me inside, he'll get eaten". And then, after the fight, Hatton said "He's very clever inside. The way he moves his body and uses his elbows".

That is an underrated part of Floyd's game. You are not going to train for 8 weeks and suddenly become a better inside fighter than Floyd is right now.

Castillo had some success because he had gone hundreds of rounds with JCC.

I will bump the lengthy thread on how to beat mayweather.
hah. well yeah I never said it was easy. only a handful could execute a gameplan like that. Ortiz had a good chance of it... but he failed to protect himself at all times. One mistake and... NEXT.
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#19
Old 09-23-2011, 03:29 PM
ghns1133
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Originally Posted by Gino Ros View Post
Yes, agreed. For the fighters around today.

It's no coincidence that the best inside fighters today include Hopkins, Toney and Mayweather. guys who are old-school in their approach.

There are too many guys around trying to fight like Haye and Khan. They're in love with their athleticism.
true dat^^^^^^^

i wish there were some more skilled pressure fighters

i like rios but he needs a little work on his head movement

he isnt in thhat league but he has good short punches, he goes to the body and he has a solid jab

im interested to see where he goes???
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#20
Old 09-23-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ghns1133 View Post
u would get out pointed that way IMO u would have to have prime rjj's speed and reflexes to outbox may

a skilled presure style would beat him up

duran, basilio, maybe chavez would have some success
yeah you have to be very athletic to pull that of, pac does have the athleticism but its the patience he doesn't. Also regarding your point floyd is very good in the inside now compared to earlier in his career.
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