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#21
Old 08-18-2011, 11:48 AM
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Hopkins definately, Toney could have been of equal greatness but sloth got the better of him.
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#22
Old 08-18-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
I believe he's saying Hopkins is the greater fighter but Toney would beat Hopkins.

And I agree with him.
i dont disagree with that sentiment. but he said better fighter. i just think when u say better fighter u cant base it just off skills etc. it has to be about the whole, not just parts. to me, b hop is the better fighter because while toney was more skilled, and i agree he was, hopkins had things that toney obviously lacked.
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#23
Old 08-18-2011, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
once again, i disagree. u cant call toney the better fighter. what do u mean? he was the more skilled fighter? im guessing thats what ur saying because i dont see how u can say hes the better fighter.
He has probably come to the conclusion that Toney is the more skilled fighter because he has a pair of eyes that work properly.
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#24
Old 08-18-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
Not even close? You got to be *****tin' me? It can be argued that Toney accomplished more in his 4 short years @ Middleweight than Hopkins did in 15 years in the division. What Hopkins has done since moving to Light-Heavy over the past few years is probably what puts him ahead of Tony ATM.





LMAAAAAOOOOOOO. You boxrec scholars kill me. Have you ever seen the man fight? Be honest. I'm not talking about watching a 5 minute highlight clip on youtube. I mean actually sat down and watched a full 12 round match of his in his prime?
ive seen every major toney fight. i think hes an hof'er. would i put him in a list of the 100 greatest fighters of all time? i dont know if i can. i dont think he distinguished himself enough. i dont hate toney at all. overall id say im a bigger fan of him than i am of even b hop and ive said countless times that he had it in him to be rite next to rjj, even above floyd, as the most gifted fighter of the last era. but i dunno if hes atg and if he is, hes at the tail end of the list.
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#25
Old 08-18-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
He has probably come to the conclusion that Toney is the more skilled fighter because he has a pair of eyes that work properly.
i never said he wasnt. i agree he was. the more skilled fighter =/= better fighter tho, imo.
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#26
Old 08-18-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
i do not doubt he could have been an atg and hie is a hofer. but he isnt an atg. and its totally his fault. no1 else to blame but himself so i dont really feel sorry for him. ppl say floyd wasted his career. next to toney, he looks like frikken willie pep.

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#27
Old 08-18-2011, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother Jay View Post
James Toney .. and its not close.

When one considers that James Toney was the P4P#1 fighter in the world when Pernell Whitaker was competing in his prime, its an open and shut debate.

Hopkins has NEVER been as dominant or as feared as Toney was.

Hopkins stayed in one division for over a decade avoiding any other champions at MW from 1990-2001.

James Toney dominated the SMW division. Then Toney, unlike Hopkins, went up in weight and began kicking assss up the higher divisions.

I like Hopkins and applaud his late efforts to step it up big time, but Toney is in a different class.

There's a reason why Bernard Hopkins DIDN'T go up in weight back in the 90's and early 2000's. There were people there that would have kicked his asss around the ring.

And to be honest, if Hopkins really wanted to make his mark, he should have entered the SMW tournament and showed what he had against prime young guys who were fast enough to give him problems.

The difference in the chances taken and the point in which they took them are pretty big.

If Hopkins lost now, people would say that he was old and didn't retire soon enough. Toney was taking those chances in his prime and was judged by them as part of his legacy. Hopkins had plenty of opportunities to take chances, but he waited for there to be a Plan B excuse(being an old man) to fall back on in case it didn't work out for him.

Let's not forget:

Hopkins lost to Taylor twice. Hopkins lost to Winky Wright IMO, but not officially. Hopkins list to Calzaghe. But no one strongly factors in those losses because we are quick to say "Well the guy is old and is out there still doing his thing".

Hopkins gets to lose at this stage without being heavily judged for it, but when he wins its like America won the FIFA world cup.

Its slick and clever but its still crap.
Let's just gloss over Bhop post 2006, that's a great way to make your argument....
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#28
Old 08-18-2011, 12:54 PM
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James Toney is superior in every way except in his ability to resist delicious food.
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#29
Old 08-18-2011, 01:07 PM
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Record wise and legacy wise, its pretty obviously Hopkins. his over 40+ year old wins are just too much to overlook.

But a prime, in shape Toney would have beaten prime Hopkins in my opinion.
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#30
Old 08-18-2011, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Player3 View Post
Not even close? You got to be *****tin' me? It can be argued that Toney accomplished more in his 4 short years @ Middleweight than Hopkins did in 15 years in the division. What Hopkins has done since moving to Light-Heavy over the past few years is probably what puts him ahead of Tony ATM.





LMAAAAAOOOOOOO. You boxrec scholars kill me. Have you ever seen the man fight? Be honest. I'm not talking about watching a 5 minute highlight clip on youtube. I mean actually sat down and watched a full 12 round match of his in his prime?
Really great post. Too many noobs don't understand what a rampage Toney was on before he got fat.
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