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#11
Old 08-18-2011, 10:33 AM
Dirk Diggler UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryX2011 View Post
better based on what??resume?accomplishments?dedication?
None of those.

Skill and talent.
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#12
Old 08-18-2011, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
i disagree. toney could have been better. he had more gifts. but hopkins was and is clearly the better fighter in the long run.
Good answer but Toney has done great in boxing is a 1st ballot HOF'er and is still looked at as an underachiever. That says a lot. I know "if's" don't count but if Toney had the dedication and discipline of Hopkins or PBF he could have been possibly a top 10 ATG IMO that dude was born to fight.
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#13
Old 08-18-2011, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by tredh View Post
Good answer but Toney has done great in boxing is a 1st ballot HOF'er and is still looked at as an underachiever. That says a lot. I know "if's" don't count but if Toney had the dedication and discipline of Hopkins or PBF he could have been possibly a top 10 ATG IMO that dude was born to fight.
i do not doubt he could have been an atg and hie is a hofer. but he isnt an atg. and its totally his fault. no1 else to blame but himself so i dont really feel sorry for him. ppl say floyd wasted his career. next to toney, he looks like frikken willie pep.
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#14
Old 08-18-2011, 10:40 AM
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James Toney .. and its not close.

When one considers that James Toney was the P4P#1 fighter in the world when Pernell Whitaker was competing in his prime, its an open and shut debate.

Hopkins has NEVER been as dominant or as feared as Toney was.

Hopkins stayed in one division for over a decade avoiding any other champions at MW from 1990-2001.

James Toney dominated the SMW division. Then Toney, unlike Hopkins, went up in weight and began kicking assss up the higher divisions.

I like Hopkins and applaud his late efforts to step it up big time, but Toney is in a different class.

There's a reason why Bernard Hopkins DIDN'T go up in weight back in the 90's and early 2000's. There were people there that would have kicked his asss around the ring.

And to be honest, if Hopkins really wanted to make his mark, he should have entered the SMW tournament and showed what he had against prime young guys who were fast enough to give him problems.

The difference in the chances taken and the point in which they took them are pretty big.

If Hopkins lost now, people would say that he was old and didn't retire soon enough. Toney was taking those chances in his prime and was judged by them as part of his legacy. Hopkins had plenty of opportunities to take chances, but he waited for there to be a Plan B excuse(being an old man) to fall back on in case it didn't work out for him.

Let's not forget:

Hopkins lost to Taylor twice. Hopkins lost to Winky Wright IMO, but not officially. Hopkins list to Calzaghe. But no one strongly factors in those losses because we are quick to say "Well the guy is old and is out there still doing his thing".

Hopkins gets to lose at this stage without being heavily judged for it, but when he wins its like America won the FIFA world cup.

Its slick and clever but its still crap.
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#15
Old 08-18-2011, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirk Diggler UK View Post
Hopkins.....but Toney is better
I agree with this. Can't take away what Bernard has done. And Toney did fail a PED test.
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#16
Old 08-18-2011, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryX2011 View Post
Hopkins and it aint even close,better resume,longevity and more accomplishments,no positive tests for steroids
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rip Chudd View Post
B-Hop and it's not even close.
Not even close? You got to be *****tin' me? It can be argued that Toney accomplished more in his 4 short years @ Middleweight than Hopkins did in 15 years in the division. What Hopkins has done since moving to Light-Heavy over the past few years is probably what puts him ahead of Tony ATM.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
not really much of an argument,toney isnt an atg.
LMAAAAAOOOOOOO. You boxrec scholars kill me. Have you ever seen the man fight? Be honest. I'm not talking about watching a 5 minute highlight clip on youtube. I mean actually sat down and watched a full 12 round match of his in his prime?
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#17
Old 08-18-2011, 10:45 AM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by DempseyRollin View Post
once again, i disagree. u cant call toney the better fighter. what do u mean? he was the more skilled fighter? im guessing thats what ur saying because i dont see how u can say hes the better fighter.
I believe he's saying Hopkins is the greater fighter but Toney would beat Hopkins.

And I agree with him.
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#18
Old 08-18-2011, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Jay View Post
James Toney .. and its not close.

When one considers that James Toney was the P4P#1 fighter in the world when Pernell Whitaker was competing in his prime, its an open and shut debate.

Hopkins has NEVER been as dominant or as feared as Toney was.

Hopkins stayed in one division for over a decade avoiding any other champions at MW from 1990-2001.

James Toney dominated the SMW division. Then Toney, unlike Hopkins, went up in weight and began kicking assss up the higher divisions.

I like Hopkins and applaud his late efforts to step it up big time, but Toney is in a different class.

There's a reason why Bernard Hopkins DIDN'T go up in weight back in the 90's and early 2000's. There were people there that would have kicked his asss around the ring.

And to be honest, if Hopkins really wanted to make his mark, he should have entered the SMW tournament and showed what he had against prime young guys who were fast enough to give him problems.

The difference in the chances taken and the point in which they took them are pretty big.

If Hopkins lost now, people would say that he was old and didn't retire soon enough. Toney was taking those chances in his prime and was judged by them as part of his legacy. Hopkins had plenty of opportunities to take chances, but he waited for there to be a Plan B excuse(being an old man) to fall back on in case it didn't work out for him.

Let's not forget:

Hopkins lost to Taylor twice. Hopkins lost to Winky Wright IMO, but not officially. Hopkins list to Calzaghe. But no one strongly factors in those losses because we are quick to say "Well the guy is old and is out there still doing his thing". Hopkins gets to lose at this stage without being heavily judged for it, but when he wins its like America won the FIFA world cup.

Its slick and clever but its still crap.
no....we all watched the fights against Taylor thats y most dont agree w the loss....i saw no real loss Hop was the champ...Taylor in firt fight did NOT do enough to win by no means...its debatable of course..however since u say he lost to Winky unofficially u cant argue it...lol...Toney was good he moved up in weight tho not cause he wanted to fight better comp...but because he couldnt hold the weight no more...Hop dominated the division why would he leave when he was on a record streak that would b dumb...stab ur place in history then move on...genius...pure genius....and he coward from no one...he simply fought the guys the commissions said he had to fight..point blank
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#19
Old 08-18-2011, 10:46 AM
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None of the above
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#20
Old 08-18-2011, 10:48 AM
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And James Toney has a solid argument for ATG status.

For me he's boarderline. I'd have to think about it more.

To answer the question; I would rank Hopkins higher.
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