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#1
Old 07-18-2011, 05:25 PM
T.Mag56
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Default A few thoughts on Ortiz/Money May.

Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"?

If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up.

How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date?

I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters.

We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade?

And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May.

- T

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#2
Old 07-18-2011, 05:30 PM
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Victor Ortiz will be to Floyd Mayweather what Terry Norris was to Ray Leonard.

A handpicked, "safe" opponent who is good but not seen as too threatening.

And who beats his ass...

Ortiz W12 Mayweather
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#3
Old 07-18-2011, 05:32 PM
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Ortiz is not a tune up and I'm certain Mayweather doesn't view him as such, not after this layoff...of course not, lets be realistic here man. As for the last paragraph SMH
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#4
Old 07-18-2011, 05:35 PM
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Are you oscar de la Hoya?
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#5
Old 07-18-2011, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
Am I merely skeptical, and fantastically presumptuous, or does this decision seem drastically uncharacteristic for Floyd, with a possible faint whiff of a "set up"?

If you look closely at the details, it almost doesn't make any sense for Floyd to want this fight. A young, brash, tough, hard hitting, aggressive south paw, ten years his junior, who has knocked *down all of his opponents..., win, lose or draw. The kid is 24 years old, and is coming off a beautiful war with an undefeated Berto, who was favored in the fight. Even in his most recent loss, to Maidana, the Mexican kid knocked down his opponent three times, on his way to "losing" because of a bad cut. It proves that he'll go toe to toe with anyone, take a hit, and give it harder. Except for maybe his draw with Peterson, Ortiz is a forward marching beast, an unrelenting brawler, who obviously presents a REAL threat to Mayweather. Not only because he's a southpaw, or because he's a 24 year old picture perfect boxing prodigy, but because the kid really has his head on straight. He's charismatic, he's sharp, and he actually gives the fans what they want. A fight. He may not be Marvin Hagler, but he's not far off enough for Mayweather to consider him a realistic tune up.

How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation. This is why I ask the question to my fellow boxing fans; is this a fix? A prearranged, glorified sparring session, where Mayweather can prepare for Pacquaio with ease, and grant a young southpaw his biggest pay day...to date?

I understand that Ortiz may not have the skills of Mayweather, and this is all obvious. Floyd is a defensive genius, and would likely be confident with anyone anywhere near his weight, however, why choose Ortiz for a tune up? Why this particular young, CHAMPION southpaw? It's uncharacteristic for a guy who likes to fight smaller, weaker, or shot fighters.

We either have a case of a monetary agreement between a multi millionare and a future "star" of boxing, which will benefit them both, especially if Floyd wins, OR...a misjudgment of ego, and lack of foresight for Mayweather. Manny Pacquiao is waiting in the wings, regardless of the results, but I doubt Floyd would consciously, logically, risk this Magnum Opus of such an event, by stepping into the ring with an eager young warrior, who will be head hunting. I propose the idea that if Zab Judah & Mosley can hit Floyd, then Ortiz will hit him harder, and more often. Why risk it, before the possibility of the biggest fight in at least a decade?

And, I propose this, if Victor Ortiz ever reads this. Read this carefully. Win. Forget about the agreement, if there is one, and knock him out. Have some pride. Whatever amount of money Mayweather's camp, or investors, might give you for participating in a glorified sparring session..., I promise you will make far more, in spades, a hundred fold, in the future, if you knock out the undefeated Money May.

- T
when has floyd been known to get hit with left hooks??and you said its a set up cause floyds fighting a young fighter not coming off of bad performances??wow this is hilarious....guess you're use to fighters fighting people coming off of loses and getting credit for it..smh
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#6
Old 07-18-2011, 05:36 PM
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1st off you dont know anything about Floyd's career if you think he only fihgts smaller, weaker, or shot fighters. He's been the smaller man in most of his fights and you werent calling guys like Mosley shot when he was owning Margarito.

Why would Floyd have to have a setup? He wants a tough fight and a guy to adequatly prepare him for Pac. Thats what Ortiz does. Despite everything you say about Ortiz, he's still not the #1P4P fighter in the world or close to it. He could win or hurt Floyd but why should a guy who everyone thinks is better fear him?

I also dont agree that Floyd is so vulnerable to a left hook and incase you dont know, most Southpaws dont land left hooks. They are Southpaw so its a right hook. Ortiz is very good as you say and this is no tuneup but Floyd is 34. He's too old to slowly come back in, he only wants big fights, and there is no risk in not getting a Pac pay day. If thats the case then he wouldnt have fought Shane either.

Stop talking like Floyd has never fought anyone, never been the smaller man, never takes a risk, or isnt a beast in the ring. If everything plays out right then Floyd should win and he should win convincingtly. Sure it might not go that way but Floyd only wants the big fights now and this is one of them. Ortiz wont throw a fight. He would get Floyd or Pac eventually anyways so why throw it?

Last edited by DLT; 07-18-2011 at 05:39 PM.
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#7
Old 07-18-2011, 05:40 PM
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History will repeat itself...

by James Slater - Exactly nineteen long years ago this very day, all-time great "Sugar" Ray Leonard suffered the fate of losing in what was his Madison Square Garden debut. Pushing his luck by, A: fighting on at the relatively advanced age of 33, and by B: dropping back down to as low a weight as 154-pounds for the first time in well over six years, Leonard met the much younger "Terrible" Terry Norris, in a WBC light-middleweight title challenge.

Norris, who was a full decade the younger man, was seen by some as a new star of boxing; the man who could maybe even take over from Leonard as the megastar of the lower weight classes. Coming into the February 9th, 1991 fight off the back of five straight victories, including the sensational 1st-round destruction of John "The Beast" Mugabi he'd scored to win his crown, Norris was still only a slight favourite to beat Leonard. Perhaps the reason for this was the fact that Norris, in an earlier 154-pound title challenge, this one for the WBA belt, had been blown away inside two-rounds by Julian Jackson. Leonard may not have been as lethal a one-punch killer as was "The Hawk," but he was a hard hitter nonetheless, and he was so much more experienced than Norris - to say nothing of "Sugar's" undeniable greatness. It was with all this on his mind that the 26-3 Norris entered the ring in New York to face the 36-1-1 living legend..

To the surprise to a good number of fans and even experts, Norris all but dominated Leonard from the opening bell. Shocking "The Sugarman" in the 2nd-round, and again in the 7th-round with hurtful knockdowns (even following up and belting Ray while he was down on the occasion of one of the knockdowns), Norris succeeded in busting Leonard's lip, having him on the brink of a stoppage loss and painfully reminding him how dangerous it can be for any fighter, no matter how great, to stick around in "Dodge City" - as Ray's then trainer Pepe Correa called it - for too long.

In front of a pretty poor live gate (Madison Square Garden was no way close to full for Sugar Ray's debut there unfortunately), the new stud gave the old master a pretty sad-to-watch beating. But then, as legendary British commentary Harry Carpenter said as he was calling the fight for BBC, it was hard to feel too sorry for Leonard because of the courage he was showing in there. Indeed, though his reflexes were faded, and though his punch resistance was too, the five-weight world champion's raw courage was as evident as ever.

Even managing to win a few rounds on the cards, Leonard somehow made it through to the 12th and final round; managing to navigate the danger this last three minutes posed him also. At the end it was nowhere near close on any of the three cards - with one judge scoring for Norris by a whopping margin of 120-104 - but Leonard had at least avoided the ignominy of being KO'd or stopped for what would have been the first time in his long and illustrious career. Norris, a gracious winner, had defended his WBC belt for the second time.

Afterwards, speaking to those fans in attendance who had bothered to turn up, Leonard thanked his supporters and told them this would be his last fight. Sadly, as we all know, it wasn't. Though he had refused to be KO'd or stopped against Norris - who never actually went on to become the huge star some judges felt he would maybe do - Leonard unwisely made the decision to try his luck one more time; against the relatively light-punching Hector Camacho, in March of 1997; some six years after the loss to Norris.

On this occasion, showing us once and for all how little Leonard had left, "Macho" finished the job Norris had pretty much already accomplished, and ended the career of the former Olympic medallist - stopping Ray in the 5th-round in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

Leonard, who is in much better shape than is the reportedly almost unintelligible Norris, jokes today of how he bought up the rights to both his final ring appearances, so as to prevent anyone from ever viewing them again. As intelligent and smart a guy as he is, Leonard should never have had the fights with Norris and Camacho in the first place! Despite losing his last two outings, however, Leonard's place in boxing history is secure. So too is Norris' - although not quite as exalted. Wins over Don Curry, Meldrick Taylor and Simon Brown followed for Norris, but it could be argued how the win that took place nineteen years ago today was his finest hour.

"Terrible," overall a three-time 154-pound titlist, fought until late 1998, retiring with a 47-9(31) record.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:52 PM
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I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters.

Exact quote:
"How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation."

Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself.
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#9
Old 07-18-2011, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters.

Exact quote:
"How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation."

Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself.
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Old 07-18-2011, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Mag56 View Post
I appreciate the responses. Fair enough. However, I didn't specifically state that Mayweather is vulnerable to the left hook itself, but that he's shown to be a bit more vulnerable to southpaws, primarily to his oft chosen comfort zone and stance. I just threw out the idea of a possible Ortiz "left hook" catching him, as an example, implying that Floyd has shown to be more vulnerable to lefties since his earlier days. And, when I say vulnerable, I realize that Mayweather hasn't shown many vulnerabilities at all, however the Chop Chop Corley & Judah fights show that Floyd would prefer to fight orthodox fighters.

Exact quote:
"How can Mayweather not see this as a massive risk? If he loses this fight, from a sudden left hook to the chin (and we all know he's vulnerable from that side), or constant aggression from a guy who will throw more punches (guaranteed) round for round, he will miss out on possibly the BIGGEST, most desired boxing event of our generation."

Also, I mean no disrespet to Floyd, who I agree is a phenomenal athelete and brilliant technician. I'm obviously just raising a hypothetical question about the upcoming fight, which I'm very excited about, and to see what the current buzz is around Victor's chances, and the legitimacy of the fight itself.
Its all good homie. Aint nothing like a good boxing match and this one is must see. Even most Floyd fans agree that Ortiz may pull it off or atleast rock his ass, espically early. I just think both guys are past the point in there careers of throwing fights and neither guy I dont think has it in him. I mean Ortiz is on top of the world now.

His confidence is sky him. If you ass him to take a dive now, he'll probably try to kill you because he thinks he can beat everyone. Meanwhile Floyd will make millions even against a bum so he doesnt need to throw a fight. He probably wants Pac next and Ortiz is the best guy to get him ready for that. I think Floyd probably feels that he wins or if he loses then he wouldnt have beaten Pac anyways.

If you know of me then you know I talk about the Southpaw advantage more then anyone on this site. I think its huge in all of pro sports, espically boxing. I think if Pac or Ortiz were righty then he would straight dominate them easily everytime but them being Southpaw means they could be serious threats
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