Bookmark Website  | Free Registration  | The Team
Boxing Champions |  Boxing Schedule |  Boxing Video  |  Boxing History   |  Pound For Pound  | Lounge  | The Wire |  Audio  | Arcade

Navigation
Go Back   Boxing Forum > Boxing Forums > Boxing History
Reply
Thread Navigation

#1
Old 07-18-2011, 01:25 PM
Forza
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Where the sun shines hot and the people are shady
Posts: 6,131
Rep Power: 0 Forza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond reputeForza has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 30,587,996.67
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 30,587,996.67
one of boxingscene's best - Freedom. Viva Il Duce - Rocky... Happy New Year - Freedom. 
Gay and Lesbian Pride - jazluvr Gay and Lesbian Pride - jazluvr 
Post Did Jack Dempsey cheat against Jess willard?

This could be just a myth, but i've read that in an interview 30 years later willard showed the interviewer a piece of metal or brass and said it fell out of dempsey's glove after the fight and he picked it up.

Anyone else heard similar stories?
Reply With Quote
Forza is offline
Advertisements
>>>TO REMOVE THESE ADS, PLEASE REGISTER HERE FOR FREE<<<
#2
Old 07-18-2011, 01:35 PM
Steak
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 10,816
Rep Power: 34 Steak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 105,395,465.20
Bank: 666,366,315.14
Total Points: 771,761,780.34
big sky tye video! - natas206 Couldn't give Karma, so i'll drink to that post - GreatJoe For being supportive of my boy Nate - Massage Queen good posters deserve donuts - Junito-Rulez One of the best posters on the site - Heebarican 
Favorite BoxingScene Asshole - DWiens421 Good poster. - Barnburner For all the hard work on those essays. - Barnburner 
Default

Ive heard a lot of stories about it, and it seems he did. BUT...I dont have any concrete(lol) evidence either, so, I sort of just count it as a decent win. ITs not like a win over Willard is that legendary in the first place.


However, he clearly badly cheated against Sharkey. You can see about 3 or 4 low blows in a row. The left hook KD was legit, but you can see Sharkey writhing around on the ground grabbing his nuts. Even when they drag him to his corner all he cares about is the fact that his balls are crushed. hell, he crumbles back to the ground after they bring him to his corner, holding his balls.

That knockout was NOT legitimate. And Dempsey was losing the fight. I dont count that as a win for him.
Reply With Quote
Steak is offline
#3
Old 07-18-2011, 01:45 PM
Barnburner
TheTartanSoldier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Scotland
Posts: 9,428
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 44 Barnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond reputeBarnburner has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 390,011,373,074.82
Bank: 143,061,007,084,346.91
Total Points: 143,451,018,457,421.72
The Greatest Vid : Barney the Great - McGoorty 3000 posts! - rorymac Keep up the top notch vids - JAB5239 Merry Crimbo! - The Surgeon To another of a select group of real boxing fans who really know their boxing history! - Terry A 
Your 4000th post and you quoted me, I'm honoured! Happy 4k :wave: - *Boss Lady* 4 the uploads! - chiguy91 Congrats on 5K solid KO's.. - !! AI-Holmes!! For you epic break down of Oreo's, and the Mayan calendar. lmaooooooooo - Sweet Pea 50 well deserved - the collector 
For the massive amount of points given - MindBat Merry X-mas Lad! Have a good un! - The Surgeon Happy New Year - Freedom. You're going to need it to beat me. - D-MiZe victory is sweet , rigotard and proud!! - HUGH JASS 
Rigonation badge of honor! - dan_cov your first post in the weed thread barn! , i know you don't smoke , keep it that way young one!! - HUGH JASS Happy birthday! Hope you have a good one. - dan_cov Boxingscene Chat room :fing02: - jose830 what up homie...just incase I want you to know I had nothing to do with that thread title change that's your thread bro - -jose- 
Lou Gehrig's Disease (ALS) - NChristo Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Childhood Cancer - NChristo Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - NChristo Hepatitis C - NChristo 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - NChristo Eating Disorders - Esophageal Cancer - Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - Irritable Bowel Syndrome - Pulmonary Hypertension - NChristo Male Breast Cancer - Pregnancy Loss - Infant Loss - Sudden Infant Death - NChristo Autism - NChristo Emphysema - Lung Cancer - Lung Disease - Multiple Sclerosis - NChristo 
Cultural Diversity - Hunger - Leukemia - Lupus - Melanoma - Racial Tolerance - Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome - Self Injury - NChristo Myasthenia Gravis - Ovarian Cancer - Sexual Assault - Substance Abuse - NChristo Hodgkin's Disease - Testicular Cancer - NChristo Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - NChristo World Trade Center Victims and Heroes - Fireworks Safety - arraamis 
Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - chiguy91 Adoptee - Bone Cancer - Child Exploitation and Abuse - Hope and Support - Peace - Retinoblastoma - Right to Life - Student Sexual Assault - codey Bone Marrow Donation - Childhood Depression - Depression - Environment - Eye Injury Prevention - Glaucoma - Kidney Cancer - Kidney Disease - Kidney Transplantation - Leukemia - Lyme Disease - Mental Retardation - Missing Children - Organ Donation - T - codey Troop and Military Support - Amber Alert - Bladder Cancer - Endometriosis - Equality - Liver Cancer - Liver Disease - Missing Children - POW/MIA - Spina Bifida - Suicide - codey Mourning - Anti-Gang - Melanoma - Daniel Alpha 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak View Post
Ive heard a lot of stories about it, and it seems he did. BUT...I dont have any concrete(lol) evidence either, so, I sort of just count it as a decent win. ITs not like a win over Willard is that legendary in the first place.


However, he clearly badly cheated against Sharkey. You can see about 3 or 4 low blows in a row. The left hook KD was legit, but you can see Sharkey writhing around on the ground grabbing his nuts. Even when they drag him to his corner all he cares about is the fact that his balls are crushed. hell, he crumbles back to the ground after they bring him to his corner, holding his balls.

That knockout was NOT legitimate. And Dempsey was losing the fight. I dont count that as a win for him.
Sharkey shouldn't have turned away.
Reply With Quote
Barnburner is offline
#4
Old 07-18-2011, 01:49 PM
Steak
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 10,816
Rep Power: 34 Steak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond reputeSteak has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 105,395,465.20
Bank: 666,366,315.14
Total Points: 771,761,780.34
big sky tye video! - natas206 Couldn't give Karma, so i'll drink to that post - GreatJoe For being supportive of my boy Nate - Massage Queen good posters deserve donuts - Junito-Rulez One of the best posters on the site - Heebarican 
Favorite BoxingScene Asshole - DWiens421 Good poster. - Barnburner For all the hard work on those essays. - Barnburner 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
Sharkey shouldn't have turned away.
bs. The low blows are what ended the fight, not the knockdown. Sharkey was wide awake while he was writhing in pain on the ground.

KD yes, even under questionable circumstances. but the knockout itself was clearly caused by low blows, not the short left hook. Sharkey looked like he was already on his way to taking a knee while he was getting hit, which is why his feet looked sort of swept underneath him.
Reply With Quote
Steak is offline
#5
Old 07-18-2011, 02:06 PM
BigStereotype
#1 Knicks Fan
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Storrs, CT
Age: 22
Posts: 7,061
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 54 BigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond reputeBigStereotype has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 202,000,204,637.31
Bank: 238,802,060,866.43
Total Points: 440,802,265,503.74
Very Good poster. - Barnburner Keep up the good posts. - Barnburner BURRRRRRRRR! - Natedatpkid 100% solid - The Surgeon another useless dothraki clown, here savage - Ether 
Heres a Fish! - The Surgeon :) - MANIAC310 Merry Christmas - The Surgeon Merry Christmas - The Surgeon No problem bro, thanks.. Knicks will be fine. - Fresno 
Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Barnburner Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Ether 
Default

I think that if Willard found anything of the sort, he would have pointed it out post-fight, no? It's like Billy Collins, Sr. saying 25 years later "oh yeah, I found some plaster in Resto's glove." It would lack credibility. Maybe that's a bad example because Resto's gloves WERE loaded, but my point is, if Dempsey's gloves were loaded and Willard had any clue of it, we would know for SURE.
Reply With Quote
BigStereotype is offline
#6
Old 07-18-2011, 03:49 PM
barfly12
Up and Comer
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 97
Rep Power: 4 barfly12 will become famous soon enough
Points: 1,005,082.14
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 1,005,082.14
Default That's a lot of crap

The story about Dempsey having "loaded gloves" against Willard gained credibility when Doc Kearns peddaled the story to, I believe, True magazine. Kearns was broke, and very bitter about Dempsey. True magazine said they would only pay for a story that was "explosive". So Kearns being a scum bag made up a story about him putting plaster of paris on Dempsey's handwraps before the fight. It should be noted, that item was not in the original version of the article. Kearns added it when True magazine turned down the first version. Dempsey did throw low against Sharkey, but Sharkey was a jerk for turning to the ref in the middle of a fight. Protect yourself at all times is an eternal truth in a boxing ring.
Reply With Quote
barfly12 is offline
#7
Old 07-20-2011, 01:14 AM
La_Vibora
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,380
Rep Power: 10 La_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond reputeLa_Vibora has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 1,715,127,918.57
Bank: 236,386.90
Total Points: 1,715,364,305.47
Default

The fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco would also make a claim that he saw footage at some private event once upon that showed a metal sp!ke clearly fall out of Dempsey's gloves after the fight. With that said I don't believe it for various reasons already listed here, also if a guy illegally beat you with dangerous object, would you be making videos like this with him:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5rV9y_LbFE
Reply With Quote
La_Vibora is offline
#8
Old 07-20-2011, 02:08 AM
Greatest1942
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 871
Rep Power: 5 Greatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 5,036,581.24
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,036,581.24
Knowledgeable Poster, keep the posts coming! - Barnburner Great trivia I really enjoyed - rorymac 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigStereotype View Post
I think that if Willard found anything of the sort, he would have pointed it out post-fight, no? It's like Billy Collins, Sr. saying 25 years later "oh yeah, I found some plaster in Resto's glove." It would lack credibility. Maybe that's a bad example because Resto's gloves WERE loaded, but my point is, if Dempsey's gloves were loaded and Willard had any clue of it, we would know for SURE.
Boxing Illustrated conducted an experiment to test whether it was possible to use plaster of paris successfully under fighting conditions. The results were reported in the May 1964 issue of BI, pp 20-24, 66. Hugh Benbow and Perry Payne (manager and trainer of Cleveland Williams) used plaster of paris on Cleveland's hands and reenacted what Kearns said occurred in Dempsey's dressing room. After 35 minutes of toasting to reenact the 114-degree heat of Toledo that day, Cleveland Williams hit the heavy bag five times. Benbow examined the wraps and found that the plaster had cracked and crumbled. "This stuff." said Cleve, "wouldn't do anybody any good."



“That question has been discussed time and again by persons incapable of giving a proper answer except through hearsay. I watched the crumbling of the “Pottowatomie Giant”, and after the terrible beating that Willard took, I heard too the many remarks that no human being could deal out so much punishment with padded mitts unless there was something hidden in the gloves. I was at the fight. I saw Jimmy Deforest, Dempsey’s trainer tape Jack’s hands. I watched every move of the men in Jack’s quarters. I think I can clear the atmosphere once and for all with an accurate version of what happened. Jack Dempsey had no loaded gloves, and no plaster of paris over his bandages. I watched the proceedings and the only person who had anything to do with the taping of Jacks’ hands was Deforest. Kearns had nothing to do with it, so his plaster of paris story is simply not true. Deforest himself said that he regarded the stories of Dempsey’s gloves being loaded as libel, calling them “trash” and said he did not apply any foreign substance to them, which I can verify since I watched the taping. It was the 4th of July, it was very hot and he did pour some water on his hands when Jack complained of the heat and that hardened them, but that was all that was done. Kearns began trashing Dempsey after they had a falling out, and that’s all there is to it.” ---Nat Fleischer.


Anyways on the film I do see that Willard himself checks Dempsey's gloves. This alone should put the suspicion to rest. Wouldn't Willard at least have felt it.

Bottom Line it was a fabricated story told by Kearns. Dempsey did not have loaded gloves.
Reply With Quote
Greatest1942 is offline
#9
Old 07-20-2011, 06:20 AM
Sugarj
Undisputed Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,533
Rep Power: 18 Sugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond reputeSugarj has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 10,030,076,409.90
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 10,030,076,409.90
For being a cool poster - -IronMike- beer for a good poster - led Top Poster. - Barnburner Great info in the running thread. - Barnburner for the excellent race time (Its new running shoes!) - The Surgeon 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by La_Vibora View Post
The fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco would also make a claim that he saw footage at some private event once upon that showed a metal sp!ke clearly fall out of Dempsey's gloves after the fight. With that said I don't believe it for various reasons already listed here, also if a guy illegally beat you with dangerous object, would you be making videos like this with him:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5rV9y_LbFE

Your a legend for posting that. I've never seen it before and it made my day.

Damn right! If someone had smashed my eye socket and jaw to pieces with a bar of metal, in gloves already loaded with plaster of Paris. I certainly would not be appearing in videos like that with a big grin on my face!!

And if I was Dempsey......and guilty of the crime, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Jess Willard. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to waltz with the guy or kiss him.
Reply With Quote
Sugarj is offline
#10
Old 07-20-2011, 07:11 AM
Greatest1942
Interim Champion
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 871
Rep Power: 5 Greatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond reputeGreatest1942 has a reputation beyond repute
Points: 5,036,581.24
Bank: 0.00
Total Points: 5,036,581.24
Knowledgeable Poster, keep the posts coming! - Barnburner Great trivia I really enjoyed - rorymac 
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sugarj View Post
Your a legend for posting that. I've never seen it before and it made my day.

Damn right! If someone had smashed my eye socket and jaw to pieces with a bar of metal, in gloves already loaded with plaster of Paris. I certainly would not be appearing in videos like that with a big grin on my face!!

And if I was Dempsey......and guilty of the crime, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near Jess Willard. I certainly wouldn't be wanting to waltz with the guy or kiss him.
The July 5, 1919 NY Times quotes Willard as saying, "Dempsey is a remarkable hitter. It was the first time that I had ever been knocked off my feet. I have sent many birds home in the same bruised condition that I am in, and now I know how they felt. I sincerely wish Dempsey all the luck possible and hope that he garnishes all the riches that comes with the championship. I have had my fling with the title. I was champion for four years and I assure you that they'll never have to give a benefit for me. I have invested the money I have made."

It was reported that Willard had his jaw broken at 13 places. I doubt you can open your mouth with that amount of injuries. Him giving the interview points out that his injuries were exaggerated.

Teddy Hayes (another Dempsey second) cut the wraps after the fight and had no trouble doing so. No trace of plaster.

Last edited by Greatest1942; 07-20-2011 at 07:37 AM.
Reply With Quote
Greatest1942 is offline
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
cheat, dempsey, jack, jess, willard?

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


Privacy Policy - Submit News - Feedback - Site Map - Advertise with Us

Copyright © 2003-2013 BoxingScene LLC All rights reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:29 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.