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#1
Old 07-03-2011, 11:32 AM
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Default Wlad vs the greats

I just finished watching Klitschko vs Haye and I came away thoroughly unimpressed once again. Wlad is rigid, timid and the only thing he has are a jab and a one, two combination. I know I'll hear that Haye ran the whole fight and there is truth to that. But Wlad NEVER worked the body to slow Haye Down so the blame lies squarely on him for looking bad....again.

Against many of the all time greats I sincerely believe he wouldn't be able to get away with this style and be successful. I would pick Lennox, Holy, Bowe, Tyson, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Dempsey and possibly others to beat him.

This is not hate as I believe he deserves to be within the top 20 ATG heavyweights at least, but an honest assessment and opinion.
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#2
Old 07-03-2011, 11:47 AM
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His left hook is pretty impressive and he has a decent right uppercut (when he throws it, which isn't often), but you're right. His offensive variety isn't there. I still think he's a tricky matchup, just because he has such a good jab and is so good at using his height as defense. When you have power and accuracy like he does, you're going to score some BIG knockouts like he has. But most of those guys are at least 60/40 against him. Louis beats him just about every time (that overhand right would knock Wlad into another timezone) but I think that he'd give Ali a lot of problems. He'd still lose, I think, and the fight would be AWFUL but it would be very close.

Of those guys you listed, I think he could beat Holyfield, Frazier, Bowe and possibly Tyson (long shot). I'd still probably favor them, though.
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#3
Old 07-03-2011, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
I just finished watching Klitschko vs Haye and I came away thoroughly unimpressed once again. Wlad is rigid, timid and the only thing he has are a jab and a one, two combination. I know I'll hear that Haye ran the whole fight and there is truth to that. But Wlad NEVER worked the body to slow Haye Down so the blame lies squarely on him for looking bad....again.

Against many of the all time greats I sincerely believe he wouldn't be able to get away with this style and be successful. I would pick Lennox, Holy, Bowe, Tyson, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Dempsey and possibly others to beat him.

This is not hate as I believe he deserves to be within the top 20 ATG heavyweights at least, but an honest assessment and opinion.
I agree with you 100%. It is a real pity there are no really good heavyweights out there right now. IMO the Klits are the best of a bad bunch right now.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
I just finished watching Klitschko vs Haye and I came away thoroughly unimpressed once again. Wlad is rigid, timid and the only thing he has are a jab and a one, two combination. I know I'll hear that Haye ran the whole fight and there is truth to that. But Wlad NEVER worked the body to slow Haye Down so the blame lies squarely on him for looking bad....again.

Against many of the all time greats I sincerely believe he wouldn't be able to get away with this style and be successful. I would pick Lennox, Holy, Bowe, Tyson, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Dempsey and possibly others to beat him.

This is not hate as I believe he deserves to be within the top 20 ATG heavyweights at least, but an honest assessment and opinion.


well, to be fair, last night is fresh in our minds

but i tend to agree. he really didn't impress me last night. virtually every great heavyweight in history has been at least mildly fleet of foot
wlad had trouble with haye's footspeed and head movement

hell, if haye actually moved those padded things at the end of his fists around to try and hit wlad he might have made a fight out of it.


wladimir has certainly never done anything to make anybody with a right boxing sense believe that wladimir should be favored against great HW's

he's never been tested in that context.
the best fighters he's fought recently (haye, ibragimov [a guy who i believe goes a tad underrated. he really wasn't a horrible H dub.])
have made him look less than what his other recent opponents have made him appear to be

and what do those two opponents have in common?
they were both mildly fleet of foot
haye's a move around puncher and ibragimov is more of a southpaw cutie, but both guys moved their legs


i think the movement in combination with real offensive firepower and a 15 round engine and work ethic would stop wladimir
and he loses to virtually every great HW


he's had a great run
he deserves to be in the HOF simply because there's nobody else from his era outside of his brother that should take his place

but until he shows me more against better opponents he's going to rate pretty low against most of the modern era great HW champions

liston, foreman, lewis, ali, louis, frazier, holyfield, tyson, holmes
probably all knock him out



that being said, he's a better talker in english than 99.99 percent of all american boxers
he's not a coward
he does have some skill
and he's a very likable guy, and i'll still support him and his brother




oh, and klitschko vs klitschko...

vitali knocks him out
he's the better boxer, maybe not as athletic and technical, but he's every bit the ring general and a boatload more
he's got one of the best chins i've ever seen
and he's also a bit more stable mentally it seems
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Prince Mongo View Post
I agree with you 100%. It is a real pity there are no really good heavyweights out there right now. IMO the Klits are the best of a bad bunch right now.


best of a bad bunch is exactly what they are.


i cant wait for adamek and vitali, though
i think adamek will make a fight of it
he's been in some bonafide wars
and has been in tough at HW (against arreola)
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post
I just finished watching Klitschko vs Haye and I came away thoroughly unimpressed once again. Wlad is rigid, timid and the only thing he has are a jab and a one, two combination. I know I'll hear that Haye ran the whole fight and there is truth to that. But Wlad NEVER worked the body to slow Haye Down so the blame lies squarely on him for looking bad....again.

Against many of the all time greats I sincerely believe he wouldn't be able to get away with this style and be successful. I would pick Lennox, Holy, Bowe, Tyson, Holmes, Ali, Frazier, Liston, Louis, Dempsey and possibly others to beat him.

This is not hate as I believe he deserves to be within the top 20 ATG heavyweights at least, but an honest assessment and opinion.

Anyone whos fundamentally sound is going to do ok. Wlad is very strong and has a good jab. That said, he does good but probably loses to the great outside boxers, but get's eaten up by closer range fighters like Frazier, Holyfield, Tyson.

Wlad might do well against Foreman, given he doesn't get hit lol. Wlad is pretty quick on his feet. Thats if Georges viscious body attack and 82 reach doesn't come into play.

I don't know it's still pretty hard to pick him over any greats. Even fat old Lewis beat the brother I consider better (debatable) and Holyfield in his prime was way to fast and tough (vs bowe) Wlad simply can't fight on the inside like that and his chin isn't in the same league.

i'll give him his credit though, I think he's better than Cooney, Carnera and Willard.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:25 PM
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I dont see how he could live with a Tyson or a Dempsey, A Holyfield or a Louis.... i could go on here.

The man has size, power and a jab but very little else

Movement baffles him, power scares him to death and pressure flusters him
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
well, to be fair, last night is fresh in our minds

but i tend to agree. he really didn't impress me last night. virtually every great heavyweight in history has been at least mildly fleet of foot
wlad had trouble with haye's footspeed and head movement

hell, if haye actually moved those padded things at the end of his fists around to try and hit wlad he might have made a fight out of it.


wladimir has certainly never done anything to make anybody with a right boxing sense believe that wladimir should be favored against great HW's

he's never been tested in that context.
the best fighters he's fought recently (haye, ibragimov [a guy who i believe goes a tad underrated. he really wasn't a horrible H dub.])
have made him look less than what his other recent opponents have made him appear to be

and what do those two opponents have in common?
they were both mildly fleet of foot
haye's a move around puncher and ibragimov is more of a southpaw cutie, but both guys moved their legs


i think the movement in combination with real offensive firepower and a 15 round engine and work ethic would stop wladimir
and he loses to virtually every great HW


he's had a great run
he deserves to be in the HOF simply because there's nobody else from his era outside of his brother that should take his place

but until he shows me more against better opponents he's going to rate pretty low against most of the modern era great HW champions

liston, foreman, lewis, ali, louis, frazier, holyfield, tyson, holmes
probably all knock him out



that being said, he's a better talker in english than 99.99 percent of all american boxers
he's not a coward
he does have some skill
and he's a very likable guy, and i'll still support him and his brother




oh, and klitschko vs klitschko...

vitali knocks him out
he's the better boxer, maybe not as athletic and technical, but he's every bit the ring general and a boatload more
he's got one of the best chins i've ever seen
and he's also a bit more stable mentally it seems
This is Poet and I endorse this post. Spot-on and I can't add anything.

Poet
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by them_apples View Post
i'll give him his credit though, I think he's better than Cooney, Carnera and Willard.
That's not saying much :hahahaha9: I'd add he's better than Trevor Berbeck, Marvin Hart, and Hasim Rahman. Cooney, meh, I tend to think maybe Wlad is about even with.

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Old 07-03-2011, 02:13 PM
IronDanHamza
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Wlad loses to almost all ATG HW's.

He wasn't impressive last night.
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