Is Wladamir Klitschko A ATG Heavyweight?

[poet682006]

Originally Posted by Mugwump

The key to beating Wlad is the jab. If you have a good scoring jab (it needn't be punishing - although that helps - but it MUST be noticeable to the scorers) and you keep pumping into Wlad's face he will be FORCED to abandon his evasive tactics and come forward. He has to in order to recover the points he is losing.

This is what I can't understand about Haye. He didn't NEED to throw bombs or trade. He had the speed to step in, double up the jab and then step back out again. He does that five or six times per round and he would have reversed each of the ten he lost (according to my scoring).

What's more, Wlad would then have to come looking for Haye and once in range he would have been a far easier target than the one Haye was swinging madly at and looking like a fool.

I think of guys like Ali, Liston and Larry Holmes - fighters who not only had a jab but a hurtful, damaging one - and I shudder to think what suffering they would inflict on Wlad.

Unfortunately, the jab - like the body punch and old-school head movement - seem to have gone almost out of fashion in favour of power, power and more power. So much so that I confidently predict that any talented kid around today in possession of all three (and a good chin) will go on to achieve greatness. Which is sad when you think that fifty years ago any fighter NOT in possession of these tools wouldn't get so much as a sniff.

Well, at least Haye didn't fight like the usual Wlad opponent (they all seem to use the same cookie cutter ring tactics). Haye's biggest problem was there didn't seem to be any thought behind his offense. He would just wing wild shots blindly in Wlad's direction and hoping something connected. The results were predictable: Most of them didn't connect. It was almost like he never heard of the concept of placing one's punches.

Poet

[Mugwump]

Originally Posted by poet682006

Well, at least Haye didn't fight like the usual Wlad opponent (they all seem to use the same cookie cutter ring tactics). Haye's biggest problem was there didn't seem to be any thought behind his offense. He would just wing wild shots blindly in Wlad's direction and hoping something connected. The results were predictable: Most of them didn't connect. It was almost like he never heard of the concept of placing one's punches.Poet

From the very beginning Haye became obsessed with his own power and neglected his bread-and-butter skills. It's an all-too-familiar (not to mention, tragic) story these days. At cruiser he was blasting guys out in two or three rounds and I guess he figured he was superman. I mean, against guys like Ruiz and Barrett - virtual punchbags - I doubt if he threw more than ten jabs.

So, when Wlad arrives and he suddenly realises he needs something different to unlock the gate there's nothing there. But Haye shouldn't shoulder all of the blame. His trainer, Adam Booth, perhaps deserves even more criticism.

In the past I've said that Haye was far too easy to hit (although his speed advantage was more than enough to bamboozle the Iron Giant on Saturday). The same can be said of young George Groves who I think is being ruined by Booth. Yes, he recently beat James De Gale by employing a good boxing strategy. But close scrutiny reveals that De Gale threw the fight away because of criminal inactivity.