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#11
Old 07-01-2011, 01:54 AM
nomadman
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Mugwump, nice analysis on Bruno my man. You've made me want to go back and rewatch some of his fights, as I feel my current opinion on him may be flawed.
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#12
Old 07-01-2011, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Mugwump View Post
Possibly a T-KO. But not a KO. Frank had a very good chin and I doubt anyone could starch him with one punch. Unfortunately (and this was a problem he shared with Nigel Benn), his chin tended to degenerate proportionally to his stamina. Which meant that whilst it was nigh-on impossible to stop him dead, persistent pressure would ultimately exhaust him.
Bruno gets alot of grief for his chin but it wasnt that bad, like u say it was his stamina that let him down (all those muscles) and when that went so did his chin. Tho lets bare in mind tho that Mike Tyson had him floored within 20 seconds of their first fight, he wasnt really hurt to be fair tho. The way Frank reacted when hurt didnt help, When Trinidad was hurt he hit the deck skidding on his ass, Louis kept his poker face, Holyfield started trading, some guys run, some guys take a knee. Bruno? He Froze and that enabled the opponent to just Tee off on him and end it

Frank could Really crack and dosnt get enough credit for his power either, i just watched him crumple Gerry Coetzee this morning - wow.

Last edited by The Surgeon; 07-01-2011 at 04:39 AM.
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#13
Old 07-01-2011, 04:36 AM
OLD JUD
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Originally Posted by Mugwump View Post
Frank had two problems - the wrong kind of fitness (physical rather than athletic) and occasional bouts of timidity. The former could have been solved quite easily had someone instructed him correctly.

Agreed.

Bruno was a far better fighter than many give credit. There isn't a heavyweight in the game right now who wouldn't trade their jab for his, which was an absolute redwood. Lennox Lewis had no answer to it until Bruno began to tire. Moreover, he was unquestionably one of the hardest hitting heavyweights of the last twenty years. He could really crumple an opponent.

But not as good as the Lewis jab. Lewis was overconfident, he should have been a mile ahead on points because he was better than Bruno in every department. On the night a lazy Lewis turned up, lost every round until he realised that the fight was slipping away from him, then he moved up the gears and got Bruno out of the way.

Yes Bruno could crumple an opponent, but not the quality ones.
The reality is Bruno just didn't absorb a punch very well, and he struggled to shake the effects off, watch the Cummings fight. Bruno was nailed right at the end of the first, and was almost out on his feet, and he was still showing the effects in the fifth round. Any reasonable boxer with an ounce of ability would have finished Bruno off in the second.


Against Witherspoon & Smith I'm pretty sure he was ahead on the cards until he gassed (the final round for the latter, I think). With nothing more than a bit more attention paid to his fitness both those names would probably be marked as Ws. A considerable improvement to his resume.

Bruno won every round against Smith, but fell apart worryingly as soon as Smith landed a clean shot.

The Tyson myth-monster had Frank beat before he set foot in the ring for their second encounter. But he put up a decent show in their opening bout. Far, far better than the much-vaunted Spinks and Berbick. He even hurt Mike with a clubbing right but he lacked the killer instinct to press home the advantage.

Given his success against Bonecrusher and Witherspoon (especially) I hardly think Sanders would have him hiding beneath the bed-clothes.
Bruno was full of genuine confidence in the first Tyson fight, which is more than can be said about some of Tyson's higher calibre opponents.
But as you say, Bruno went into the second fight fully aware of what was in store for him.

I agree with you that whilst Sanders might not have Bruno quaking in his boots, i still think Sanders would nail him.
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#14
Old 07-01-2011, 07:29 AM
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But not as good as the Lewis jab.
Really? Lewis' jab was never much good. I mean, that's not to say he didn't possess a good jab. Manny Steward often said Lewis in training could really knock back an opponent - but for some inexplicable reason it kind of withered into a half-hearted pawing range-finder on fight night. Bruno, on the other hand, could absolutely spear you. There is no comparison between the two jabs.

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Lewis was overconfident, he should have been a mile ahead on points because he was better than Bruno in every department. On the night a lazy Lewis turned up, lost every round until he realised that the fight was slipping away from him, then he moved up the gears and got Bruno out of the way.
He was certainly over-confident. But I think we have to give some credit to Bruno. He fought a tactically sound fight and it had Lennox reaching for plan B. Something he rarely did in all of his fights.

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Yes Bruno could crumple an opponent, but not the quality ones.
Well, this is what happens when you reach the top level. Even the hardest punchers find they're having less success. You can't really judge Bruno's punching power off his inability to put away the likes of Witherspoon, Bonecrusher and Tyson. Those guys all had rock solid chins and you needed something more than power to defeat them.

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The reality is Bruno just didn't absorb a punch very well, and he struggled to shake the effects off, watch the Cummings fight. Bruno was nailed right at the end of the first, and was almost out on his feet, and he was still showing the effects in the fifth round. Any reasonable boxer with an ounce of ability would have finished Bruno off in the second.
Again, I don't agree. Bruno did take some big shots throughout his career. Yes, he was wobbled occasionally. But better fighters than him have been wobbled. The fact is - taken over his entire career - his punch resistance was remarkably good when he wasn't running short of gas. I've lost count of the number of people who say the same about Benn when it is patently not true. Benn did not have a glass jaw. His problem was that in his early career he was prone to punching himself out. And when he did he was easy to hit and easy to put away. If Benn truly had a glass jaw he would never have climbed off the ropes and the canvas to beat McClellan - one of the hardest P4P punchers of modern times.
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#15
Old 07-01-2011, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mugwump View Post
Really? Lewis' jab was never much good. I mean, that's not to say he didn't possess a good jab. Manny Steward often said Lewis in training could really knock back an opponent - but for some inexplicable reason it kind of withered into a half-hearted pawing range-finder on fight night. Bruno, on the other hand, could absolutely spear you. There is no comparison between the two jabs.

Tony Tucker and a few others who know better would argue with you over that point. The younger more ambitious Lewis would and could pick an opponent apart with the jab, and he used it more intelligently than Bruno, not surprising seeing as he was just a more intelligent fighter.


He was certainly over-confident. But I think we have to give some credit to Bruno. He fought a tactically sound fight and it had Lennox reaching for plan B. Something he rarely did in all of his fights.

Bruno simply fought at his very best against Lewis, which is all that could be asked, Lewis on the other hand displayed the laziness that would come back to haunt him in more than one fight.


Well, this is what happens when you reach the top level. Even the hardest punchers find they're having less success. You can't really judge Bruno's punching power off his inability to put away the likes of Witherspoon, Bonecrusher and Tyson. Those guys all had rock solid chins and you needed something more than power to defeat them.

Obviously. Bruno was from a boxing stable that was renowned for being fed a diet of mugs, just look at Charlie Magri's career. Bruno was like many fighters in boxing history, very impressive against mediocre opposition, not as hot against the top flight.


Again, I don't agree. Bruno did take some big shots throughout his career. Yes, he was wobbled occasionally. But better fighters than him have been wobbled. The fact is - taken over his entire career - his punch resistance was remarkably good when he wasn't running short of gas. I've lost count of the number of people who say the same about Benn when it is patently not true. Benn did not have a glass jaw. His problem was that in his early career he was prone to punching himself out. And when he did he was easy to hit and easy to put away. If Benn truly had a glass jaw he would never have climbed off the ropes and the canvas to beat McClellan - one of the hardest P4P punchers of modern times.
Yes he did take some big shots without going over, but when the better guys hit him he was literally rooted to the spot. Bruno seemed to have little or no natural defensive instinct, some guys have the survival instinct to either hold, bob and weave, or punch there way out of trouble. Bruno was handicapped by a severe lack of natural movement especially lateral movement. Keep Benn out of this, he was a much more talented and exciting boxer than Bruno! And if both these guys were still around today, i know who i'd spend my ticket money on!

It's a shame i wasted good money watching Bruno all those years ago, i really thought (Like many others at the time) that we had a real contender in Bruno, But the frailties started to show up from the Cummings fight onward.
Bruno is still one of Britain's best heavyweights, but at their peak there is a gulf between him and Lewis.

So we'll have to disagree on this one, but it's been interesting to read your views on 'Big Frank'. Sadly unlike you, i'm a fair few pounds out of pocket through watching him!
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#16
Old 07-01-2011, 11:29 AM
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????????? .
Bruno wins. Better fighter,better career. Sanders claim to fame is his ONE win over Wladimir Klitschko. Other than that he didn't beat a single top ten contender. And I love how people like Pastrano ignore the fact that Sanders was stopped by Hasim Rahman.
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#17
Old 07-01-2011, 11:31 AM
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Sanders wins, better boxer than Bruno (That ain't saying much!) and a decent punch.
Sanders has some respectable wins on his record, including a two round blow out of Wladimir Klitschko, and Sanders was an aging fighter at this stage.
Then the following year he managed to last until the 8th against big brother Vitali, Bruno at his best would have left the ring on a stretcher against either of the Ukrainian kids.

Sanders by KO before the seventh round.
What were the other "respectable" wins?
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#18
Old 07-01-2011, 12:15 PM
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What were the other "respectable" wins?
Carlos De Leon
Ross Puritty
Bert Cooper
Johnny Nelson

None of these guys would make top ten, but in relation to Sanders perceived limited ability they were decent wins.
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#19
Old 07-01-2011, 01:53 PM
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Bruno wins. Better fighter,better career. Sanders claim to fame is his ONE win over Wladimir Klitschko. Other than that he didn't beat a single top ten contender. And I love how people like Pastrano ignore the fact that Sanders was stopped by Hasim Rahman.

Rahman is clearly in another class compared to Sanders and Bruno.
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#20
Old 07-01-2011, 02:03 PM
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Carlos De Leon
Ross Puritty
Bert Cooper
Johnny Nelson

None of these guys would make top ten, but in relation to Sanders perceived limited ability they were decent wins.
The thing is, Sanders' stamina wasn't exactly good either. He lost the fight to Rahman because he gassed too early, which is a shame, otherwise he'd likely have another big name on his resume besides Wlad. Not that I care that much really, but its a fact. So now that I think more carefully about it, Frank would have a bigger chance to win than I thought originally.
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