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#1
Old 06-24-2011, 04:39 AM
BetterCallSaul
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Default Burglar stabbed to death - Father and son arrested on murder charge

Burglar stabbed to death: Father and son arrested on suspicion of murder

- 'Householder, his son and his son's girlfriend' are arrested
- Officers found stabbed man after 'Gang' dragged away following 999 call
- Police say case will be investigated 'within legal framework as it stands'
- Shami Chakrabarti: Cameron law could be 'recipe for vigilante executions'


Quote:
A father and son were being questioned by detectives last night after a suspected burglar was stabbed to death as he broke into their family home.

The death comes only days after David Cameron vowed to protect the rights of homeowners to defend their property.

Peter Flanagan, 59, and his son Neil, 27, were asleep upstairs when four masked men forced their way in through the back door of their terraced home.

They awoke and confronted the gang and during a violent struggle one balaclava-wearing intruder was stabbed.

His three accomplices helped him as he staggered 200 yards before collapsing.

Alerted by a 999 call from the Flanagan household shortly before midnight on Wednesday, police dashed to the scene to find the intruder lying in the street in a pool of blood.

The 26-year-old suspected burglar, who has not been named, was taken to a nearby hospital where he was pronounced dead.

Police returned to the £120,000 two-bedroom Victorian home in Salford and arrested Mr Flanagan, a garage worker, his son, a builder, and Neil’s 21-year-old girlfriend.

They were in custody last night, being questioned by detectives on suspicion of murder. Earlier this week, Mr Cameron said: ‘My mission is to make sure families can feel safe in their homes. The first duty of government is to protect people.

‘We will put beyond doubt that homeowners and small shopkeepers who use reasonable force to defend themselves or their properties will not be prosecuted.’

But Shami Chakrabarti, director of civil rights group Liberty, said: ‘This is a problem not of law but the public understanding of it.

‘Of course people facing intruders can use reasonable force to defend themselves.

‘But saying that “burglars leave their rights at the threshold” is a recipe for vigilante execution and mistaken killings of family members returning home after dark.’

Asked about Mr Cameron’s comments, Chief Superintendent Kevin Mulligan of Greater Manchester Police said: ‘I would tell people to ring the police and use reasonable force, but I don’t want to enter into a legal debate.’

Mr Flanagan’s wife Valerie, who moved out of the home in 2000, was not at the property at the time.

She said: ‘It’s such a terrible incident. How anything like this can happen to anyone I don’t know. My husband is a great man and a great father – it’s such a shock.’

Neighbours in the quiet cul-de-sac described the Flanagans as a ‘lovely family’.

Mr Flanagan helped Neil run a construction company in Manchester until it was dissolved in 2007.

One neighbour said: ‘They’re just a normal family and I would never have expected in a million years that they would have been caught up in anything like this.

‘I’ve known the young lad Neil since he was born and I’ve known the family for years.

‘If what people are saying is right then I think it’s perfectly understandable if Neil and his father stood up against a gang of burglars. I would have done the same thing to protect my own family.’

Sylvia Sharpe-Cadigan said: ‘We were asleep when suddenly we were woken up by a lot of noise.

‘Normally we would have heard the family’s dog barking but sadly it died last week and its possible the burglars may have known that.

‘There were four police cars outside. I came down and said to the police, “What’s going on?”

He said, “There’s been a break-in”.

I said, “Is anybody hurt?” and he said, “That’s all I can say”.’

Another neighbour said: ‘We’re such a close community around here.

'It’s just so upsetting. Everyone is really surprised and shocked. We all try to support each other.

'Neil is my mate and he’s a hard-working normal young guy. His dad is an honest bloke that has lived in the area all his life.

'Neil is not the type of guy that would do something like that. He’s a working bloke. He’s just a normal person.’

Mr Mulligan said: ‘This is a shocking incident and a man has lost his life.’

He confirmed the dead man had suffered at least one stab wound. He added: ‘I can’t say if he was armed. We are particularly interested in tracing the three males with balaclavas.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1QH1s14qo
The fact that an innocent and hard working father and son have been arrested on murder for protecting their family home is a disgrace. If you break into somebody's home you leave your rights at the point of entry. No person should be punished for protecting what's theirs.

What do the government, police, and human rights campaigners expect people to do? Sit there patiently while criminals ransack their homes not knowing whether they are going to be assaulted, raped, or even killed.

You don't know how an intruder is going to act when they break into your home. They could be a harmless young teen, merely trying to fund a drug habit, or a mass murderer looking for a family to butcher. The simple truth is that a home owner can't take any chances and must resort to any means possible to protect what's dear to them.

Staunch liberals like Shami Chakrabarti would have whole families destroyed for the sake of protecting the rights of those criminals who abstain from society and have no intention of doing good. As a population we can't let that happen. If legal force is brought down on the heads of this innocent father and son, then I will do what ever I can in protest.
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#2
Old 06-24-2011, 04:52 AM
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hate these politically correct *****es

my brother got done a few years back cos his dog bit a punk breaking into his car in his backyard... he also got done for beating up a kid that tried to steal an old ladys handbag after he caught him.
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#3
Old 06-24-2011, 04:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timbatron View Post
Burglar stabbed to death: Father and son arrested on suspicion of murder

- 'Householder, his son and his son's girlfriend' are arrested
- Officers found stabbed man after 'Gang' dragged away following 999 call
- Police say case will be investigated 'within legal framework as it stands'
- Shami Chakrabarti: Cameron law could be 'recipe for vigilante executions'




The fact that an innocent and hard working father and son have been arrested on murder for protecting their family home is a disgrace. If you break into somebody's home you leave your rights at the point of entry. No person should be punished for protecting what's theirs.

What do the government, police, and human rights campaigners expect people to do? Sit there patiently while criminals ransack their homes not knowing whether they are going to be assaulted, raped, or even killed.

You don't know how an intruder is going to act when they break into your home. They could be a harmless young teen, merely trying to fund a drug habit, or a mass murderer looking for a family to butcher. The simple truth is that a home owner can't take any chances and must resort to any means possible to protect what's dear to them.

Staunch liberals like Shami Chakrabarti would have whole families destroyed for the sake of protecting the rights of those criminals who abstain from society and have no intention of doing good. As a population we can't let that happen. If legal force is brought down on the heads of this innocent father and son, then I will do what ever I can in protest.
There's an investigation to determine whether reasonable force was used. Let's defer judgment until more i known about the case as perhaps there's something more to this that led to the arrest.

Perhaps it's like the Tony martin case whose definition of "self defense" included following a burglar out of the house and shooting him in the back with an unlicensed shotgun he had bragged about buying specifically to kill gypsies as the kid attempted to climb the fence and flee.
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#4
Old 06-24-2011, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
There's an investigation to determine whether reasonable force was used. Let's defer judgment until more i known about the case as perhaps there's something more to this that led to the arrest.

Perhaps it's like the Tony martin case whose definition of "self defense" included following a burglar out of the house and shooting him in the back with an unlicensed shotgun he had bragged about buying specifically to kill gypsies as the kid attempted to climb the fence and flee.
The person breaking into someones house deserves to die. If someone was breaking into my house or my car I have no problem shooting them in the head.
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#5
Old 06-24-2011, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Check View Post
The person breaking into someones house deserves to die. If someone was breaking into my house or my car I have no problem shooting them in the head.
You might have a problem later when you are arrested for murder.
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#6
Old 06-24-2011, 05:02 AM
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Serves him right.

Anyone comes in my yard after midnight I'll happily let my dog savage an intruder.
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
You might have a problem later when you are arrested for murder.
Which is bullcrap. How do I know if the burglar has a gun? I don't. I can't take a chance of shooting him in the leg and then him responding by shooting me in the head. I wouldn't waste my time calling the cops either. They are slow and if they even catch the guy(unlikely) they won't give him proper punishment. If you're ready to steal a car, you should realize that there is a chance you're gonna die. Shame on the law for protecting the burglar and giving him "rights".
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#8
Old 06-24-2011, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by squealpiggy View Post
There's an investigation to determine whether reasonable force was used. Let's defer judgment until more i known about the case as perhaps there's something more to this that led to the arrest.

Perhaps it's like the Tony martin case whose definition of "self defense" included following a burglar out of the house and shooting him in the back with an unlicensed shotgun he had bragged about buying specifically to kill gypsies as the kid attempted to climb the fence and flee.
I don't condone shooting somebody when they are fleeing the scene and a distance away from the property, but the intruders were inside the property at the time of the shooting trying to escape through a window. If I was an old, alone and in the dark, and the victim of several burglaries in the past, I would have probably reacted in the same way.
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#9
Old 06-24-2011, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Check View Post
Which is bullcrap. How do I know if the burglar has a gun? I don't. I can't take a chance of shooting him in the leg and then him responding by shooting me in the head. I wouldn't waste my time calling the cops either. They are slow and if they even catch the guy(unlikely) they won't give him proper punishment. If you're ready to steal a car, you should realize that there is a chance you're gonna die. Shame on the law for protecting the burglar and giving him "rights".
You've just said you would shoot someone in the head for breaking into your car. There's a level of proportionality here. If somebody is attempting to kill you or another party then you should be able to use proportionate force to prevent the attack and this includes lethal force. But shooting people in the head for stealing from your car is ridiculous and will get you charged with murder.

Do burglars have rights? Of course they do. They have the right to a fair trial, to legal representation, and to the presumption of innocence, just like everyone else including people who have shot a guy in the head for trying to steal the change out of someone's ashtray.

These discussions all go the same way.

I'd shoot a guy in the head if he was trying to steal my car.
Well then you'd be justifiably jailed for murder.
So I'm supposed to LET A BURGLAR RAPE AND KILL MY FAMILY!?
Well... no. There's a teeny tiny difference in the proportion of the threat.

Self defense is about defending yourself. The clue is right there in the name. It's not about punishing offenders or exacting retribution, and the point that it becomes either of those things is the point where you are no longer the defender and you become the aggressor.

It's one of the reasons that police will very seldom accept a claim of self defense if you are in a street fight.
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:27 AM
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That's a load of ****. If a burglar dies or gets harmed during the burglary, that should be on him, not the owner of the property. I hope the family gets off, they're just protecting what's theirs. And I hope this incident sends a message to other burglars.
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