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#11
Old 06-24-2011, 03:09 AM
TBear
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Gotta go with Wlad by knockout. An upset would be good for the sport but I can't see that happening. I think Haye has to get inside Wlads jab to land his shots and that occuring is very unlikely.
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#12
Old 06-24-2011, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by TBear View Post
Gotta go with Wlad by knockout. An upset would be good for the sport but I can't see that happening. I think Haye has to get inside Wlads jab to land his shots and that occuring is very unlikely.
If Haye keeps his promise of retiring in October there's no way anything but a Wlad win will be good for sport.
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#13
Old 06-24-2011, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BattlingNelson View Post
If Haye keeps his promise of retiring in October there's no way anything but a Wlad win will be good for sport.
True but unfortunitely a Haye win is the only way we will ever see an unified heavyweight title in the near future.
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#14
Old 06-24-2011, 05:32 AM
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Provided they both come in, in top condition, with no nagging injuries, clear heads and stick to their gameplans, then Wlad will win. Even if Wlad isn't 100% he should still win as I feel the gulf in skill level and experience is great enough to allow him some margin for error. Haye is simply far too raw and inexperienced at heavyweight to take out a guy like Wlad, and makes so many errors that Wlad is bound to capitalise at some point or other.

- He keeps his hands down but doesn't possess the defensive prowess or punch awareness to avoid a solid jab. And Wlad has the best in the division.

- He can't fight well going backwards; the only shot he can throw with decent power and accuracy on the backfoot is the right uppercut, and that will be hard to land against a much taller fighter like Wlad. The right against Ruiz was a bit of an anomaly and it didn't end the fight. In general, pressure fighters cause him problems.

- He wings his power punches and leaves himself massively exposed and off balance. That shouldn't be too dangerous against Wlad, but it's not exactly a good thing either. It's also physically draining.

- He switches off for large portions of the fight and circles the ring doing very little. He also allows himself to be dictated to during this time if his opponent presses the action.

Even if Haye were to land something and stun Wlad, I'm not confident in his ability to end things. In the past when Haye had a fighter hurt he lost all semblance of technique and accuracy and just swarmed them with street-fighter type punches till they fell to the floor. This has worked thus far, but Wlad despite his less than iron chin is quite tricky to absolutely take out. His height coupled with his clinch reflex tends to take the sting off a lot of the punches and cause guys to wear themselves out. Fighters in the past had to consistently hit him clean on the jaw and put him down multiple times before the ref stopped things. Even Sanders didn't take him out with one shot. Haye's capable of finishing things if he keeps his cool, but he'll have to land an almighty shot to start it off, and keep his cool till the end. I think in his excitement he'll smother his shots and burn himself out.

Most likely outcome is that Wlad weathers an early storm, establishes his jab and takes Haye out somewhere in the mid to late rounds.

I'm planning on betting money on this fight, so be assured these are my honest thoughts on the matter.
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#15
Old 06-24-2011, 06:31 AM
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I'm interested to see what mental state Wlad will come in the ring with, Haye has really really got into the mans head which although I still think Wlad will win it's making me feel a bit unsteady.
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#16
Old 06-24-2011, 08:39 AM
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Wlad, by knockout.
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#17
Old 06-24-2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by NChristo View Post
I'm interested to see what mental state Wlad will come in the ring with, Haye has really really got into the mans head which although I still think Wlad will win it's making me feel a bit unsteady.
I think it might fuel his drive to beat him. ala FoTC whee Alis mentl game made Frazier willing to give his life to win.
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#18
Old 06-24-2011, 03:19 PM
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A lot of times, a network will play up a rivalry to attract fans attention, but in the case of Wladimir Klitschko (55-3, 49 KO's) and David Haye (25-1, 23 KO's), I get the feeling it's genuine. These two really cannot stand each other. Because of that, this is the kind of fight where there are so many out of the ring issues that I almost feel like the actual fight is being overlooked. But the fight itself is very interesting. Since Lennox Lewis retired, the Wlad and his brother Vitali have so thoroughly dominated the pathetically weak heavyweight division that all illusion of competition has been removed. David Haye and his supporters think that that time is about to end. There have been many who have called out the Klitschkos, but none who did so as viciously or persistently. Haye's campaign of psychological warfare against the Ukranian duo has been well documented, most famously when he made a youtube video while wearing a shirt portraying him standing victorious over the decapitated corpses of the two brothers, heads held aloft in triumph. While it may have been ugly and in poor taste, it aroused a firestorm of publicity.

But more important than his trash-talking abilities, Haye has talent. Watch him for two seconds in a ring and his natural athletic ability pops out of you. His hands are blindingly fast and the sound his punches make has to be heard to be believed. When he lands clean, his overhand right sound like a cannonade. And his reflexes, flexibility and head movement make landing solidly on his chin a tricky proposition. It's easy to look at Haye and say "this guy should destroy everyone." But he has a multitude of flaws. He has admitted he has a suspect chin, but the more alarming issue is his stamina. It's not bad, it's alarming. It's pathetic. It's putrid. In his fight with John Ruiz last year, he came out and absolutely gave Ruiz the business. He had every physical advantage and was showing it off. But by the fifth round, he was breathing heavily and retreating more and more. Ruiz's jab started to find a home. Haye eventually stopped "The Quiet Man" in the 9th round, but the performance wasn't exactly what we were looking for. Ruiz doesn't exactly fight at a breakneck pace, either. Haye just managed to punch himself out.

This is one reason why I think that after the dust clears next Saturday, Wlad is still going to be the champ. Klitschko's stamina isn't fantastic - his first loss was to Ross Purrity after he gassed out in the 10th - but he can make 12 rounds at his own pace. Haye has only gone to decision twice. He went 12 with Valuev and Ismail Abdoul. I've never seen the Abdoul fight, but Haye was extremely restrained in his fight with the Russian giant Valuev. Maybe this was because of the immense size discrepancy - Valuev stood 7'0" to Haye's 6'3" - but it also doesn't prove any evidence that Haye can fight at anything other than the slowest pace for 12 rounds.

That might not even be an issue, though. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure it won't be. Haye, for all his athleticism and talent, only really has one mode. Much like Manny Pacquiao, he's an explosive mid-range slugger without much of an inside game or a game-changing jab to work from outside with. Wlad likes to work at long and mid-range, first finding and creating openings with his jab from a distance, then stepping in and ripping his freight train straight right and left hook. If an opponent gets too close, he holds on until the ref separates them. This is really the story of the fight. Historically, Haye wants to fight off the back foot and launch a counter-right hand if he sees an opening. He could try that over the jab, but he's going to punch up and over those long arms against a skilled opponent who is expecting it. Basically, he has to get lucky and land a bomb. On top of that, he has to jump in to counter Wlad's reach advantage. Klitschko will stand his ground, work the jab until he either frustrates or breaks down Haye and then unleash a bomb. Lather, rinse, repeat. It's a strategy he's used to destroy the heavyweight division. Haye's head movement will be frustrating at first, but a technically-sound fighter can make adjustments. In all but the most extreme examples, skill is a good counter to natural athleticism. Eventually, Haye is going to slip up. His style of defense makes that basically inevitable. When everything is reflexes and contortion, you're going to take a shot you don't see coming. Wlad's defense isn't fantastic, relying a lot on height and parrying shots with his gloves, but any holes in it are more of a focus issue than an actual flaw in his defensive strategy. He has never been more focused. I can see Haye's defense failing a lot sooner than Klitschko's and a strong right hand from the latter crashing home to end the fight very abruptly.

The fact of the matter is that Wladimir Klitschko is just a better fighter than David Haye. On top of that, he has a style advantage. They're each the best fighter the other has ever fought, but when it comes down to it, I predict that Klitschko will win by knockout, probably sometime around the seventh round when Haye starts to slow down. Regardless of the outcome, this is the first legit title fight we've seen in the division since big brother Vitali fought Lennox Lewis in 2003. It might be the last one we see for a while unless Haye wins and then fights Vitali himself. So make sure to tune in and enjoy what's likely to be a great knockout, even if it proves to be a more tactical fight.
-Ling Bon, 6/23/2011


UPDATE: After downloading and rewatching the Ruiz fight, I think I overstated his stamina problems. He fought exclusively at his own pace and slowed down and looked tired the few times Ruiz managed to force the fight but for the most part looked pretty good. I maintain that Klitschko is the superior fighter and will knock him out, however.
-Ling Bon, 6/24/2011
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Last edited by BigStereotype; 06-24-2011 at 05:13 PM.
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#19
Old 06-24-2011, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkTerror88 View Post
I think it might fuel his drive to beat him. ala FoTC whee Alis mentl game made Frazier willing to give his life to win.
That's more how I see the situation. Haye might be in Wlad's head, but this is more of a waking a sleeping giant situation. There was genuine rage in Wlad's eyes during that Faceoff with Kellerman.
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Old 06-25-2011, 02:42 AM
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Dr. Steelhammer, hopefully by brutal KO.
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