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#41
Old 05-24-2011, 05:53 PM
CarlosG815
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Originally Posted by PRINCE O' PROSE View Post
And to answer your question in the bold (a second time), I think the poster was just pointing to the manner in which Joe razed this young, strong contender/titlist's career to the ground, not just that he beat him, but the manner in which he did it was utterly complete and somewhat ruthless.
And to answer you again, it has no meaning to me (and it shouldn't to anyone) that a phony hypejob got embarrassed by anybody. Look at the manner in which Ishida dismantled Kirkland (who is another Lacy, no skills, good management, hypejob) and much more impressively and Ishida is a nobody.

I guess to me it just doesn't matter as a win over Lacy says nothing to back up the fighter. It comes off to me that he is not just trying to say that he ended his career, but that he ended his career and that at the same time it was an impressive feat, which it was not because Lacy was never that good and the same Lacy that lost to Calzaghe got beat up by a shot to hell Roy Jones.

And what was so ruthless to you about getting slapped around and potshotted? Lacy was tired and falling all over the place because he was a 2 round fighter and after the 2nd round he was gassed.

You're acting like Calzaghe gave him this brutal beatdown when in reality he potshotted a guy who had no legs since the 3rd round to a boring snoozer UD.

Good job running to your boyfriends defense though. It's commendable how you stand by your man.
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#42
Old 05-24-2011, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
I respectfully disagree.

Joe Calzaghe didn't do his best to fight the best. He was more than happy with Frank Warren giving him bum after bum to fight and rack up title defences.

These are the fighters that were available during his reign who were in the top 5;

Sven Ottke
Bruno Girard
Antwun Echols
Eric Lucas
Anthony Mundine
Danny Green
Marcus Beyer
Liborado Andrade
Lucia Bute
Thomas Tate

Now I'm not saying he should have fought them all nor am I saying that it's his fault. But the fact is, they were available, and he only fought 2 fighters in his entire reigh that were ranked in the Top 5 at 168. To me, that's a joke.

I think anyone would be hard pressed to find someone with close to that many title defences whilst only fighting 2 fighters that were ranked in the top 5.

He fought a few top 10 guys and close to top 5 but only 2 whilst they were actually ranked there.

The fact remains for one reason or another his resume is pretty empty. With very few top ranked competition in there.
I agree with a lot of this and have said as much in the past. However, it speaks to divisional mediocrity that this is what was missed. Ottke and Liles are the only serious misses IMO and beating Mitchell, Lacy, and Kessler washes it. Ottke was never going to be matched with him leaving Liles the big miss. I think unifying and leaving he class essentially cleaned out ultimately outweighed what misses there were.

I wrote a lengthy critique on Joe a while back which lays out where I stand: http://www.boxingscene.com/measured-...alzaghe--16920

Last edited by crold1; 05-24-2011 at 06:18 PM.
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#43
Old 05-24-2011, 06:11 PM
PRINCE O' PROSE
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There are many decent fighters in boxing history who might be described as 'nobodies' in some quarters, Ishida is just one more. Lacy, while deeply flawed, established himself more than Kirkland ever has (and, FWIW, I'd been slating the Kirkland hype on this forum for years before Ishida beat him).


Look, I thought Lacy was overrated, too. Never bought into the fanfare and the building him up into something he wasn't. Doesn't blind me to what he actually was, though.


If Calzaghe was the "fraud" you're making out, he wouldn't have been able to "embarrass" that guy in that fashion. Period. Lacy may have been limited, but it takes something very good to expose it to that degree.

And, yes, you do get some extra points for the manner in which you win a fight. I'm not saying it makes it a great win, but certainly a very creditable one.



Don't expect further correspondence, because I'm out of this subforum. Too many of you don't know how to use it.
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#44
Old 05-24-2011, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
Joe Calzaghe has some of the worst stoppages in the history of the sport, many of which are a downright disgrace. Most of them aren't legit stoppages, they are products of crooked boxing via fixed fights.

And to answer who he should have fought... Yeah Chad Dawson wouldn't have been a bad matchup at the time he retired, seeing as how he managed to duck every top fighter in their prime throughout his career. Glen Johnson at the time of Joe's retirement was still a top guy and would have been a good fight. Joe ducked him several times.



are you effin serious?!
or do you just troll along?


you think fights were fixed for joe calzaghe?

lol!
why not fix a fight or favor a fighter that will actually make you some money
not some homegrown british domestic that never left the UK until he was on the way out?



is some welshy getting a kickback of two kilts a, set of bagpipes, and a hot cup of tea every time zag's opponent takes a dive?


you honestly think most of joe calzaghe's stoppage wins were fixed?

i need some air!
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#45
Old 05-24-2011, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by New England View Post
are you effin serious?!
or do you just troll along?


you think fights were fixed for joe calzaghe?

lol!
why not fix a fight or favor a fighter that will actually make you some money
not some homegrown british domestic that never left the UK until he was on the way out?



is some welshy getting a kickback of two kilts a, set of bagpipes, and a hot cup of tea every time zag's opponent takes a dive?


you honestly think most of joe calzaghe's stoppage wins were fixed?

i need some air!
Watch the video I posted.... What other explanation can you come up with?

Up and coming fighters fight in fixed fights all the time... It is not so outlandish of a claim judging by the stoppages he has had. He has had stoppages without even landing punches on a guy.... It's in the above video, watch it.
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#46
Old 05-24-2011, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by PRINCE O' PROSE View Post
There are many decent fighters in boxing history who might be described as 'nobodies' in some quarters, Ishida is just one more. Lacy, while deeply flawed, established himself more than Kirkland ever has (and, FWIW, I'd been slating the Kirkland hype on this forum for years before Ishida beat him).


Look, I thought Lacy was overrated, too. Never bought into the fanfare and the building him up into something he wasn't. Doesn't blind me to what he actually was, though.


If Calzaghe was the "fraud" you're making out, he wouldn't have been able to "embarrass" that guy in that fashion. Period. Lacy may have been limited, but it takes something very good to expose it to that degree.

And, yes, you do get some extra points for the manner in which you win a fight. I'm not saying it makes it a great win, but certainly a very creditable one.



Don't expect further correspondence, because I'm out of this subforum. Too many of you don't know how to use it.


don't leave the history section, brother
you sound like a good chap and your input will be appreciated as it's evident that you have a wealth of boxing knowledge


i'd also like to add that lacy was an olympian
with 209-12 am record. national championship in there as well in a non- olympic year

i can put such information into the pot without hugging lacy's nuts until candy comes out. i'm simply stating facts.

in fact, me putting those facts out there says absolutely nothing about my opinions on the fighter
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#47
Old 05-24-2011, 06:54 PM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by PRINCE O' PROSE View Post
Lacy was overhyped, yes.

But overhype does two things; it makes fans/analysts overrate fighters contemporaneously, but it can also make people underrate fighters (to varying degrees) in retrospect.


Don't get me wrong, Lacy wasn't the force of nature he was cracked up to be coming into that fight, but he was a credible contender in his prime who held a title, a solid fighter.

And to answer your question in the bold (a second time), I think the poster was just pointing to the manner in which Joe razed this young, strong contender/titlist's career to the ground, not just that he beat him, but the manner in which he did it was utterly complete and somewhat ruthless.


Joe Calzaghe is a bit of a strange one, a curious mix of pros and cons. Some people think much too highly of the fighter and what he did, some think much too little.


Joe's only a phony if you're looking at the spurious claim for All-Time Greatness made on his behalf. As a Hall Of Famer, he's legitimate.
I agree.

He's not an ATG IMO, though.

HOF, absolutely.
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#48
Old 05-24-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
Watch the video I posted.... What other explanation can you come up with?

Up and coming fighters fight in fixed fights all the time... It is not so outlandish of a claim judging by the stoppages he has had. He has had stoppages without even landing punches on a guy.... It's in the above video, watch it.


i've seen said video. it's been posted here before, and it's certainly bounced around youtube for some time
it's nothing that needs to be watched twice, and certainly not at the request of one as rude as yourself


would i stop those fights at those points? maybe. perhaps not.
i'm not in the ring with the guys watching one guy kick the **** out of the other, so i'm not sure how i'd react given the agency


i would agree with your assertion that some of these fighters could have continued
in fact, i'd point out that in my wanderings around saturday daytime european streams i see lots of early stoppages. perhaps it's a regional thing.


i will not, however, agree that most of his fights were outright fixed, or that outright fixes are common in up and coming fighters. if you really believe that i don't know what to tell you.

most notable up and comers do not need fixes early in their careers
they fight guys that don't belong int the ring with them until they get to a higher pay grade

after all, there's no four round fighter on the planet that can hang with a jose benevidez, who will stay a four round fighter.

in other words, you can find plenty of names to pad a resume that don't need to be fixed
why risk so much fixing a fight when you can pay a guy who is just going to give up and fall down the second he gets hit anyway?


if you want to call a no hoper who tries but has no shot a fix then maybe i understand what you are saying
but otherwise i couldn't be further from agreement

Last edited by New England; 05-24-2011 at 07:08 PM.
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#49
Old 05-24-2011, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jermainerambo View Post

calzaghe is the only one to beat bernard hopkins at light heavyweight


joe calzaghe is the greatest fighter of his generation he beat everybody who dared to fight him.....you just have to learn to live with this so stop and accept reality and do the math 46-0=46
Clinton Mitchell beat Hopkins at LHW
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#50
Old 05-24-2011, 07:11 PM
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Clinton Mitchell beat Hopkins at LHW


Very true!
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