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#11
Old 04-18-2011, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Seleção No. 13 View Post
If you remove Manny and Floyd out of the welterweight division, the top ten list looks like a freshly laid turd.
Lol, couldn't of put it better myself
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#12
Old 04-18-2011, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
this is exactly right.

If Manny is #1 and Shane is #2 it's for the Ring Belt. That's the rules of the Ring Magazine and it would be legit as absurd as it may sound. But this is a result of Berto losing and floyd being dropped. Again it all depends on where Ortiz is ranked though, he could end up being #2 for all I know.
The Ring change their rules though. They aren't consistent with their 'Lineage' or 'Ring title' or whatever.

When Floyd fought Castillo, Castillo was ranked #1 and Floyd was unranked. And it was for the vacant 'Ring title'.

Mosley Vs Forrest was for the vacant 'Ring title' and Mosley was #1 and Forrest was #3.

My point is, The Ring aren't consistent with there 'rules'.

And I'm sorry, but there is just no reasonable argument for this fight being for the 'Ring Title', at all.
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#13
Old 04-18-2011, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
this was the rankings, when you break it down, it's not hard to realize Shane could be #2:



1. Manny Pacquiao

2. Floyd Mayweather Jr. (will be removed May 1st)

3. Andre Berto (will drop down do to loss)

4. Shane Mosley

5. Jan Zaveck

6. Joshua Clottey

7. Vyacheslav Senchenko

8. Rafal Jackiewicz

9. Timothy Bradley

10. Mike Jones



So unless you want Jan Zaveck or Vyacheslav Senchenko ranked #2, it has to be either shane or ortiz. I mean other than pac & floyd WW isn't that great of a division anymore.
It's got to be Ortiz. No way Shane deserves to be ranked that high.
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#14
Old 04-18-2011, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post

When Floyd fought Castillo, Castillo was ranked #1 and Floyd was unranked. And it was for the vacant 'Ring title'.
No I'm pretty sure the only thing on the line was the WBC, which may have been a lineal title but it wasn't The Ring belt.

Quote:
Mosley Vs Forrest was for the vacant 'Ring title' and Mosley was #1 and Forrest was #3.

My point is, The Ring aren't consistent with there 'rules'.
They have always stated in some rare cases a #1 and #3 can fight for the Ring belt only if #2 can never fight or the #1 guy already previously beat the #2 guy recenlty beforehand. An example is when Wlad fought the #3 guy for the Ring Belt when Vitali was #2 because they will never fight. It rarely ever happens but this has always been within their rules.

Lots of people wanted #1 Bradley vs #3 Alexander to be for the Ring belt but they refused because they stated Khan is active and available to fight. So they do stay pretty consistent.

Quote:
And I'm sorry, but there is just no reasonable argument for this fight being for the 'Ring Title', at all.
I think I just broke it down though. If Mosley is #2 then it will happen. If he's #3 or below it wont happen.

Last edited by ИATAS; 04-18-2011 at 07:04 PM.
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#15
Old 04-18-2011, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ***1048;ATAS206 View Post
No I'm pretty sure the only thing on the line was the WBC, which may have been a lineal title but it wasn't The Ring belt.



They have always stated in some rare cases a #1 and #3 can fight for the Ring belt only if #2 can never fight or the #1 guy already previously beat the #2 guy recenlty beforehand. An example is when Wlad fought the #3 guy for the Ring Belt when Vitali was #2 because they will never fight. It rarely every happens but this has always been within there rules.

Lots of people wanted #1 Bradley vs #3 Alexander to be for the Ring belt but they refused because they stated Khan is active and available to fight. So they do stay pretty consistent.



I think I just broke it down though. If Mosley is #2 then it will happen. If he's #3 or below it wont happen.
Mayweather-Castillo wasn't for the Lineage but it was for The Ring belt.

After Floyd beat Castillo he was 'The Ring Champion'.

Well in that case, this should be the epitome of that rare case where the #1 Vs #3 is for the Lineage.

Shane hasn't won a fight in 2 years at WW. That shouldn't qualify for a fight for the Lineage no matter where he is ranked by default.
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#16
Old 04-18-2011, 07:21 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Mayweather-Castillo wasn't for the Lineage but it was for The Ring belt.

After Floyd beat Castillo he was 'The Ring Champion'.

Well in that case, this should be the epitome of that rare case where the #1 Vs #3 is for the Lineage.

Shane hasn't won a fight in 2 years at WW. That shouldn't qualify for a fight for the Lineage no matter where he is ranked by default.
Ortiz should go to 2 and no way in hell should this be for Ring's belt. Floyd is the linear champ anyways and ain't retired.

FTR...Floyd-Castillo should be seen as for lineage. It was a good exception as they were both widely the best at 30 & 35.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:27 PM
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I'm not asking about the Ring Title, I'm saying the lineal title. How long can PBF hold the title without fighting, planning on fighting, or showing any sign of fighting? He gave up the title before when he retired and then won it back by beating Mosley. (Cotto over Mosley, Margarito over Cotto, Mosley over Margarito, Mayweather over Mosley.)

Who does Pacquiao have to beat for the title? I agree that Mosley is a weak candidate, but I think Ortiz is even weaker. A guy with one win at WW and coming off a draw with Lamont Peterson? I think most people are going to still rank SSM higher than Ortiz at WW and that this fight should be for Pacquiao's 5th title.
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#18
Old 04-18-2011, 07:29 PM
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Ortiz should go to 2 and no way in hell should this be for Ring's belt. Floyd is the linear champ anyways and ain't retired.

FTR...Floyd-Castillo should be seen as for lineage. It was a good exception as they were both widely the best at 30 & 35.
I agree Floyd is the Lineal Champion, but he isn't according to The Ring. So that would be a confusion if they did decide to make this for The Ring belt. Considering The Ring belt isn't 'Lineage' but The Ring often consider it to be. So yeah, what happens there do you think?

I agree they were but they need to be ranked 1# and #2 to be considered for the Lineage, No? Although it was quite evident they were the best fighters being unranked in a division surely you can't just get a shot at the Lineage at your first fight. But again I highlight The Ring's inconsistency, The Ring had that fight for the Lineage as they were clearly the best two fighters but weren't ranked, on other occasions they haven't done that.

I guess Mayweather-Castillo 2 could be considered for the Lineage, though. As both fighters would be ranked #1 and #2 at that point.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:31 PM
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I totally agree with your p4p rankings, Pac is definitely above Floyd. - Neutral 
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
I agree Floyd is the Lineal Champion, but he isn't according to The Ring. So that would be a confusion if they did decide to make this for The Ring belt. Considering The Ring belt isn't 'Lineage' but The Ring often consider it to be. So yeah, what happens there do you think?

I agree they were but they need to be ranked 1# and #2 to be considered for the Lineage, No? Although it was quite evident they were the best fighters being unranked in a division surely you can't just get a shot at the Lineage at your first fight. But again I highlight The Ring's inconsistency, The Ring had that fight for the Lineage as they were clearly the best two fighters but weren't ranked, on other occasions they haven't done that.

I guess Mayweather-Castillo 2 could be considered for the Lineage, though. As both fighters would be ranked #1 and #2 at that point.
if they were not the first time they were by the second.
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Old 04-18-2011, 07:35 PM
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Damn, it wasn't that long ago that WW was the hottest/deepest division in Boxing. My, how times change
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