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#1
Old 04-04-2011, 04:09 AM
Steak
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Default The greatness of Sugar Ray Robinson

So often we simply state that Robinson is the greatest fighter of all time as if its fact, without looking at why that is. Well, just for the hell of it, Im going to compile a list of his accomplishments(If I miss any, feel free to append it, he had a very long and exhausting career full of excellent opponents I might have missed).

Sammy Angottx3-Robinson beat this HOF fighter at Lightweight, and Angott would become Lightweight champ 5 months after losing to Robinson. Less than 2 years later he would go on to beat the first man to beat the ATG Willie Pep. Very overlooked win. Robinson would beat Angott twice more at Welterweight.

Fritzie Zivicx2-Robinson would beat the HOF fighter Zivic twice in a row, Zivic was the Welterweight champ only three months before fighting Robinson(gaining the title from Henry Armstrong, losing it to Freddy Cochrane).

Marty Servox2-Robinson would beat him twice, the first time when he was 42-0-2. Servo would beat Cochrane to become the Welterweight champ a few years later.

Tony Motisi-top ten at welterweight

Jake LaMotta-Robinson would beat this HOF Middleweight 5 times, many times weighing in as a natural Weltweight or less compared to the much heavier LaMotta. Their first fight happened 9 years before Robinson beat LaMotta to claim the Middleweight crown.

Ian Jannazzox4-top ten at WW

Jackie Wilson-top five at WW

Ralph Zanelli-top ten at WW

Henry Armstrong-HOF, arguably #2 best ever p4p, multi weight class champ.

Tommy Bell-#1 contender at WW, Robinson finally wins the vacant WW title by beating Bell

Jimmy Doyle-top ten at WW

Jackie Wilson-top ten at WW

Bernard Docusen-top five at WW

Kid Gavilanx2-HOF, future WW champ, top ten at WW

George Costner-#2 at WW

Robert Villemainx2-#3 at MW, had wins over LaMotta and Kid Gavilan

Charley Fusari-top ten at WW

Bobo Olsenx4-HOF Middleweight, would go on to become Middleweight champ about 3 years after the first Robinson losses, Robinson would beat him again by decision during his MW title run, Robinson would KO him again after his first retirement to regain the Middleweight title in 1955

Jake LaMotta-listed again because Robinson won the MW title by stopping him

Randy Turpin-Avenging his loss to Turpin by KO, Robinson wins back the MW title from this HOF MW, Turpin rated #1 at MW

Rocky Graziano-Robinson KOed this HOF Middleweight in 3, Graziano was rated in the top ten but not prime

Rocky Castellani-Robinson would come out of retirement in 1955 and beat the #2 rated MW by decision(retiring after ahead on points but dying from heat exhaustion against HOF LHW Joey Maxim)

Gene Fullmer-Robinson would go 1-2-1 against this HOF MW, KOing him in their second bout. Gene Fullmer was champ and would go on to become MW champ again

Carmen Basilio-Robinson would avenge his earlier loss to the HOF former WW champ and regain the title

exhausting list, and I probably havent even named all his good wins either. 18 wins over HOF fighters from lightweight to middleweight
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#2
Old 04-04-2011, 11:47 AM
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Nice post, I pretty much discount the Armstrong win though as Hank was "gone" by the time they fought.
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#3
Old 04-04-2011, 11:57 AM
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I agree with GJC about Hank and I don't hold the Graziano win in a very high regard but excellent summary of wins, I'm sure I will refer to this in the future when discussing Robinson and my mind goes blank.
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#4
Old 04-04-2011, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
I agree with GJC about Hank and I don't hold the Graziano win in a very high regard but excellent summary of wins, I'm sure I will refer to this in the future when discussing Robinson and my mind goes blank.
Mind I could see the Graziano fight going exactly the same way when he was prime, punchers effort and shaking SRR before getting caught himself
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by GJC View Post
Mind I could see the Graziano fight going exactly the same way when he was prime, punchers effort and shaking SRR before getting caught himself
Yeah I agree lol, but the fact that Graziano didn't really fight anyone between the last Zale fight and Robinson fight, he hadn't really proved he was up to the task if you ask me. I also feel that Graziano was always a bit overrated on the whole, and I think thats rooted in the fights with Zale, Robinson saying he was the hardest puncher he faced and knocking him down (wasn't a major knockdown) he was good with a tremendous punch but I think hes generally given too much credit, JMO.

Last edited by RubenSonny; 04-04-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 01:23 PM
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I utterly agree with the Armstrong and Graziano comments.

Both at the tail end of thier long careers and really not great wins for Robinson.

But overall great breakdown, BI.
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#7
Old 04-04-2011, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
Yeah I agree lol, but the fact that Graziano didn't really fight anyone between the last Zale fight and Robinson fight, he hadn't really proved he was up to the task if you ask me. I also feel that Graziano was always a bit overrated on the whole, and I think thats rooted in the fights with Zale, Robinson saying he was the hardest puncher he faced and knocking him down (wasn't a major knockdown) he was good with a tremendous punch but I think hes generally given too much credit, JMO.
Graziano was always going to sell tickets so I guess that coupled with an unbeaten run was enough to guarantee the fight. Also until Fullmer and Basilio came along there wasn't too much to challenge SRR. Might be on my own here but Nigel Benn always reminded me A bit of Graziano
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:09 PM
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Excellent breakdown BI.



green k sent.
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#9
Old 04-04-2011, 08:03 PM
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Green K for you. One of my favorite posts. I don't have anything to add just voicing appreciation.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:33 PM
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Probably one of the best resumes in boxing history. You know you're great when you beat multiple greats.
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