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#21
Old 03-19-2011, 12:36 AM
SCtrojansbaby
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Originally Posted by JAB5239 View Post

Im sorry, Ray Leonard anyone?

And neither Ramirez, Randall or Camacho were at their best and peak fighters anymore. Not trying to bash Chavez, who was great, but lets not blow him up and exaggerate either.

You don't know what you're talking about they were all in their peak when Chavez beat them

Randall was 33 but had his 2 biggest wins of his career before and after Chavez beat him

Ramirez was 29 and was coming off his most significant win.

Camacho was undefeated(I though he beat soundly Haugen both times)

As for Leonard he has 4 great wins but after that his resume is extremely thin. And I would say none of Leonards 4 big wins were as dominant as Chavez vs Camacho

Last edited by SCtrojansbaby; 03-19-2011 at 01:03 AM.
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#22
Old 03-19-2011, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
You don't know what you're talking about they were all there peak when Chavez beat them

As for Leonard he has 4 great wins but after that his resume is extremely thin. And I would say none of Leonards 4 big wins were as dominant as Chavez vs Camacho
oh come on. even without his 4 great wins Leonard still had an amazing record. Price, Ranzany, Mayweather, Shields, Muniz, Gant, Green, Finch, Kalulue, Lalonde...all very good wins, especially those last two.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB
Im sorry, Ray Leonard anyone?

And neither Ramirez, Randall or Camacho were at their best and peak fighters anymore. Not trying to bash Chavez, who was great, but lets not blow him up and exaggerate either.

Randall was most definitely prime against Chavez. he fought like a man possessed in those fights, and showed he wasnt a one and done fighter with his excellent outings against Coggi.

Ramirez wasnt dead in the middle of his prime, but certainly very close and coming off a good winning streak. incendently, Ramirez deserved a decision over Alexis Arguello.

Camacho wasnt prime, but still a damn good fighter, and Chavez beat him up worse than prime Trinidad and DLH did years later at higher weights.

Last edited by blackirish137; 03-19-2011 at 01:02 AM.
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#23
Old 03-19-2011, 01:10 AM
SCtrojansbaby
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Originally Posted by blackirish137 View Post
oh come on. even without his 4 great wins Leonard still had an amazing record. Price, Ranzany, Mayweather, Shields, Muniz, Gant, Green, Finch, Kalulue, Lalonde...all very good wins, especially those last two.
Randall was most definitely prime against Chavez. he fought like a man possessed in those fights, and showed he wasnt a one and done fighter with his excellent outings against Coggi.

Ramirez wasnt dead in the middle of his prime, but certainly very close and coming off a good winning streak. incendently, Ramirez deserved a decision over Alexis Arguello.

Camacho wasnt prime, but still a damn good fighter, and Chavez beat him up worse than prime Trinidad and DLH did years later at higher weights.
How was Camacho not in his prime?

I would say Chavez next tier of wins are far greater then Leonards next tier:
Cortes TaylorII Haugen Duplessis Mayweather Castillo
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#24
Old 03-19-2011, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
How was Camacho not in his prime?

I would say Chavez next tier of wins are far greater then Leonards next tier:
Cortes TaylorII Haugen Duplessis Mayweather Castillo
Camacho was prime at Lightweight and superfeatherweight, before he ran into someone named Rosario.

Chavez has a lot of very good wins.
Mario Martinez
Ruben Castillo
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Juan LaPorte
Edwin Rosario
Jose Luis Ramirez
Roger Mayweather II
Sammy Fuentes
Meldrick Taylor
John Duplessis
Angel Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Greg Haugen
Terrence Alli
Frankie Randall
Tony Lopez
Giovanni Parisi
David Kamau
Miguel Angel Gonzalez(draw)

but Leonard is simply above him. the guy has wins over Hearns, Duran, Benitez and Hagler for crying out loud, and then you add in all those other good wins...
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#25
Old 03-19-2011, 01:23 AM
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On a seperate note in the 2nd Randall fight you see Chavez show he can be slick. After he gets nailed in the 2nd round there was a point when Chavez against the ropes made Randall miss almost 20 punches in a row.
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#26
Old 03-19-2011, 01:41 AM
SCtrojansbaby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackirish137 View Post
Camacho was prime at Lightweight and superfeatherweight, before he ran into someone named Rosario.

Chavez has a lot of very good wins.
Mario Martinez
Ruben Castillo
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Juan LaPorte
Edwin Rosario
Jose Luis Ramirez
Roger Mayweather II
Sammy Fuentes
Meldrick Taylor
John Duplessis
Angel Hernandez
Hector Camacho
Greg Haugen
Terrence Alli
Frankie Randall
Tony Lopez
Giovanni Parisi
David Kamau
Miguel Angel Gonzalez(draw)

but Leonard is simply above him. the guy has wins over Hearns, Duran, Benitez and Hagler for crying out loud, and then you add in all those other good wins...

Camach beat Rosario and there were no signs of Camacho slowing down. He had beaten Paz Mancini Baltazar and Haugen 2x IMO at 140. Then Chavez gave his best performance of his career in the signature Puerto Rico vs Mexico match up and shut Camacho out. I believe Chavez was even an underdog in the fight.
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#27
Old 03-19-2011, 03:42 AM
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I think Duran would stop him late when Chavez got desperate. At least he wouldn't say no mas and would go down swinging though. Duran was just an animal though when he was winning the fight which he would be since he's better in every area until Chaez starts swinging for the fences and gets dropped.
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#28
Old 03-19-2011, 07:23 AM
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Duran by UD. 135 or 140
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#29
Old 03-19-2011, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackirish137 View Post
oh come on. even without his 4 great wins Leonard still had an amazing record. Price, Ranzany, Mayweather, Shields, Muniz, Gant, Green, Finch, Kalulue, Lalonde...all very good wins, especially those last two.
Randall was most definitely prime against Chavez. he fought like a man possessed in those fights, and showed he wasnt a one and done fighter with his excellent outings against Coggi.

Ramirez wasnt dead in the middle of his prime, but certainly very close and coming off a good winning streak. incendently, Ramirez deserved a decision over Alexis Arguello.
Camacho wasnt prime, but still a damn good fighter, and Chavez beat him up worse than prime Trinidad and DLH did years later at higher weights.
In fairness that was a tough fight to score the majority of rounds were close rounds and it was a close fight.

I had it 96-95 for Ramirez. As many know I'm a huge Arguello fan and I'm openly biased when it comes to Arguello so it shows that Ramirez probably deserved the descion It's tough to admit that but hey, I still stand by it was a close fight and a very tough fight to score.

The deciding factor for me was the KD in the 6th. I felt Arguello was winning the 6th quite clearly until the KD. Without that KD I would have scored the fight to Arguello.
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#30
Old 03-19-2011, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCtrojansbaby View Post
You don't know what you're talking about they were all in their peak when Chavez beat them

Randall was 33 but had his 2 biggest wins of his career before and after Chavez beat him

Ramirez was 29 and was coming off his most significant win.

Camacho was undefeated(I though he beat soundly Haugen both times)

As for Leonard he has 4 great wins but after that his resume is extremely thin. And I would say none of Leonards 4 big wins were as dominant as Chavez vs Camacho
Outside of Leonards 4 big wins (Which are huge) you're ignoring top contenders like Andy Price, Pete Ranzany, Randy Shields, and world champion Ayub Kalule at 154 just to name a few. Let's not pretend the big wins over Duran, Heans, Benitez and Hagler were the only 4 good fighters Leonard ever beat. Camacho's resume is nowhere near as impressive as Leonard's and he never beat anybody on the level of those big 4.


Camacho was not in his prime against Chavez either.After the Rosario fight Camacho was never the same fighter.
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