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#51
Old 03-05-2011, 12:22 AM
RubenSonny
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Originally Posted by TuRoK'em View Post
top 6?........
I think he has a case for top 10, but you gotta start with the 3 boxing gods which would be Robinson, Langford, Greb, then you got guys like Pep, Armstrong, Charles, who should all be ranked ahead of him, then theres quite a few debatable ones too. Not to discredit Duran, just think top 5 is pushing it a little.
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#52
Old 03-05-2011, 12:24 AM
goblin213
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Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
I think he has a case for top 10, but you gotta start with the 3 boxing gods which would be Robinson, Langford, Greb, then you got guys like Pep, Armstrong, Charles, who should all be ranked ahead of him, then theres quite a few debatable ones too. Not to discredit Duran, just think top 5 is pushing it a little.
Would you rank Duran ahead of Ezzard Charles?
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#53
Old 03-05-2011, 12:24 AM
TuRoK'em
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Originally Posted by RubenSonny View Post
I think he has a case for top 10, but you gotta start with the 3 boxing gods which would be Robinson, Langford, Greb, then you got guys like Pep, Armstrong, Charles, who should all be ranked ahead of him, then theres quite a few debatable ones too. Not to discredit Duran, just think top 5 is pushing it a little.
he is actually a number 8 imo...he is the greatest LW of all time so that adds more cred to him.
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#54
Old 03-05-2011, 12:25 AM
RubenSonny
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Originally Posted by goblin213 View Post
Would you rank Duran ahead of Ezzard Charles?
no.........
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#55
Old 03-05-2011, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jrosales13 View Post
OMFG, no boxing is not about beating contenders is about beating washed up recycled fighters, and winning garbage ass vacant belts in catch-weights against none ranked fighters.
There is a big difference between contenders and elite fighters. If you wanna be considered TOP 5 GOAT, you have to beat elite fighters, not cab drivers.
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#56
Old 03-05-2011, 12:26 AM
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Your logic is in the level of school guys. Nobody will ever enter then HOF besides Leonard from Duran's resume. In Pacquiao's resume up to 5 boxers or even more will end up being HOFer.
....................
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#57
Old 03-05-2011, 12:27 AM
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look for duran and pacquiao and compare them to other atgs's..........this stat is as clear and as fair as they come.....

Elite Club of Multiple Division World Champions w/ at least 4:
8 - Manny Pacquiao (112, 122, 126, 130, 135, 140, 147, 154)
6 - Oscar DeLa Hoya (130, 135, 140, 147, 154, 160)
5 - Thomas Hearns (147, 154, 160, 168, 175)
5 - Sugar Ray Leonard (147, 154, 160, 168, 175)
5 - Floyd Mayweather Jr. (130, 135, 140, 147, 154)
4 - Roberto Duran (135, 147, 154, 160)
4 - Pernell Whitaker (135, 140, 147, 154)
4 - Leo Gomez (105, 108, 112, 115)
4 - Roy Jones Jr. (160, 168, 175, 200+)

Elite Club of Multiple Awardee of Ring Figther of the Year w/ at least 3:
5 - Muhhamad Ali - 1963, 1972, 1974, 1975, 1978
4 - Joe Louis - 1936, 1938, 1939, 1941
3 - Joe Frazier - 1967, 1970, 1971
3 - Evander Holyfield - 1987, 1996, 1997
3 - Manny Pacquiao - 2006, 2008, 2009*

Elite Club of Multiple Awardee of BWAA Figther of the Year w/ at least 3:
3 - Muhhamad Ali - 1965, 1974, 1975
3 - Joe Frazier - 1969, 1971, 1975
3 - Sugar Ray Leonard - 1976, 1979, 1981
3 - Evander Holyfield - 1990, 1996, 1997
3 - Manny Pacquiao - 2006, 2008, 2009*



Comparing Manny Pacquiao among the Ring top-10 ATG Fighters:

Career W-L-D Record:
Joe Louis =========== 66-3-0 ======= 0.957
Willie Pep =========== 229-11-1 ===== 0.950
Muhhamad Ali ======== 56-5-0 ======= 0.918
Manny Pacquiao ====== 51-3-2 ======= 0.911 (4th)
Sugar Ray Leonard ==== 36-3-1 ======= 0.900
Pernell Whitaker ====== 40-4-1 ======= 0.889
Sugar Ray Robinson === 175-19-6 ===== 0.875
Harry Greb ========== 260-20-18 ==== 0.872
Roberto Duran ======= 103-16-0 ===== 0.866
Benny Leonard ======= 184-19-11 ==== 0.860
Henry Armstrong ===== 149-21-10 ==== 0.828

KO Percentage:
Joe Louis ============= 75.36%
Manny Pacquiao ======== 67.86% (2nd)
Sugar Ray Leonard ====== 62.50%
Muhhamad Ali ========== 60.66%
Roberto Duran ========= 58.85%
Henry Armstrong ======= 56.11%
Sugar Ray Robinson ===== 54.00%
Pernell Whitaker ======== 36.96%
Willie Pep ============= 26.97%
Benny Leonard ========= N/A
Harry Greb ============ N/A

Peak Record:
Harry Greb ============ 258-18-18
Benny Leonard ========= 184-18-11
Willie Pep ============= 134-1-1
Sugar Ray Robinson ===== 128-1-2
Henry Armstrong ======= 108-12-8
Roberto Duran ========= 72-1-0
Joe Louis ============= 58-1-0
Muhhamad Ali ========== 55-2-0
Manny Pacquiao ======== 51-3-2 (9th)
Pernell Whitaker ======== 40-1-1
Sugar Ray Leonard ====== 35-1-1

Number of HOF'er Defeated:
Harry Greb ------------------ 13
Norfolk, Tunney, Blackburn, Dillon, Flowers, Walker, Loughran, Miske,
Levinskey, M. Gibbons, Rosenbloom, Slattery, T. Gibbons
Sugar Ray Robinson -------- 10
Armstrong, LaMotta, Fullmer, Gavilan, Basilio, Graziano,
Zivic, Turpin, Angott, Olson
Henry Armstrong ----------- 10
Wolgast, Ross, Angott, Ambers, Jenkins, Zivic,
Montanez, Bass, Wright, Arizmendi
Joe Louis -------------------- 8
Schmeling, Sharkey, Conn, Walcott, Baer, Braddock,
Lewis, Bivins
Muhhamad Ali --------------- 7
Foster, Moore, Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Patterson, Norton
Benny Leonard -------------- 7
Tendler, Kansas, Dundee, Ritchie, Britton,
Kilbane, Welsh
Manny Pacquiao ------------- 6 (7th)
Barrera, Morales, Marquez, DeLa Hoya, Cotto, Hatton
*Assuming all makes it in IBHOF
Sugar Ray Leonard --------- 4
Duran, Benitez, Hagler, Hearns
Roberto Duran -------------- 4
Leonard, Cuevas, Palomino, Buchanan
*De Jesus & Marcel have strong chances though
Willie Pep ------------------- 3
Saddler, Ortiz, Wright
Pernell Whitaker ------------ 2
Nelson, Ramirez

Average of Opponent's Record:
Ranking by Percentage:
Muhhamad Ali ========== 33-5-1 ======= 0.850
Pernell Whitaker ======== 28-4-1 ======= 0.850
Sugar Ray Leonard ====== 32-5-1 ======= 0.840
Manny Pacquiao ======== 24-4-1 ======= 0.830(4th)
Roberto Duran ========= 21-5-1 ======== 0.780
Joe Louis ============= 40-10-3 ======= 0.755
Sugar Ray Robinson ===== 39-14-4 ======= 0.684
Henry Armstrong ======= 40-14-6 ====== 0.667
Willie Pep ============= N/A
Harry Greb ============ N/A
Benny Leonard ========= N/A

Average of Opponent's Record:
Ranking by No. of Wins minus No. of Losses:
Joe Louis ============= 40-10-3
Muhhamad Ali ========== 33-5-1
Sugar Ray Leonard ====== 32-5-1
Henry Armstrong ======= 40-14-6
Sugar Ray Robinson ===== 39-14-4
Pernell Whitaker ======== 28-4-1
Manny Pacquiao ======== 24-4-1(7th)
Roberto Duran ========= 21-5-1
Willie Pep ============= N/A
Harry Greb ============ N/A
Benny Leonard ========= N/A

Pacquiao's Other Statistics:
World Title Fights Record: 13-1-2
Number of Defeated World Champions: 12
Longest Win streak w/o a draw: 15
First Held a World Title at age: 19
Last Held a World Title at age: 31 (present)
Never fought a 0-0-0 fighter
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#58
Old 03-05-2011, 12:27 AM
Instinto
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Originally Posted by TuRoK'em View Post
he is actually a number 8 imo...he is the greatest LW of all time so that adds more cred to him.
His LW resume contains only tomato cans. He faced only two champions there, while being beaten by one of them previously.
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#59
Old 03-05-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Instinto View Post
Come on man, so Duran suddenly past his prime just after the Leonard fight? Then let's talk about his LW resume which is weaker than Hopkins's MW reign.
He was at the end of his prime by the time he hit WW man.

Lets talk about his LW run...I have no problem with at all.

Arguably the greatest run at LW, a very rich history, of all time.

Only the likes of Leonard and Gans can match Duran run at LW...

So lets discuss shall we?

Buchanan HOF'er, DeJesus borderline HOF'er, then you add wins over contenders Kobayashi, Ishimatsu, Lampkin, Bizzarro, Viruet, Robertson.

I'm not even counting Ernesto Marcel another borderline HOF'er. He didn't fight Marcel at LW, he fought Marcel at his best weight-class of 130.

Duran is arguably fighter of the decade of the 70's mofo dominated the LW division like only Leonard and Gans have....Arguably the greatest LW of all time is Duran.

Then he skipped 140 beat 2 more HOF'ers in Palomino and Cuevas then beat an prime undefeated ATG in Leonard.

Look a this man greatness. 1971 he beat a top contender in Kobayashi, 1997 he beat a top contender in Jorge Castro...

Think about that for a second...Look at how crazy that is... He beat top contenders in 3 different decades man....Please just STFU.

I didn't even mention the win he had over Barkley who was coming off the destruction of Thomas Hearns.

C'mon man.
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#60
Old 03-05-2011, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Instinto View Post
There is a big difference between contenders and elite fighters. If you wanna be considered TOP 5 GOAT, you have to beat elite fighters, not cab drivers.
margo when he fought him-not elite
clottey-not elite
mosley now-not elite
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