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#31
Old 09-25-2011, 05:35 PM
joseph5620
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
Well, Esteban De Jesus gave Duran two tough fights. Duran had to win that one from the canvas..... it took over 10 rounds for Duran to start to break down Esteban's defence and will.
Duran broke Dejesus down in the two fights that he won. And in the third fight he completely dominated him. The length of the fights has nothing to do with the punishment Duran dished out. Claiming Duran only started to break him down after 10 is ridiculous
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#32
Old 09-25-2011, 05:37 PM
joseph5620
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Originally Posted by McGoorty View Post
If you go by resume, then there are a bunch with far better opposition, and therefore not in top 5,...... When you think of McFarland & Owen Moran, you realise that Title's are not as important,,... look at how many good-uns they fought. People tend to rank Duran above people based on WHAT THEY HAVE SEEN..... If Duran fought in McAullife's day, he'd be descriminated against...... and Being in Colour helps to plant images in our heads and those images loom large when we talk about ATG's,...... who's to say that if we had many full fights in colour of Griffo or Walcott..... we may favour them over the others.
What does that have to do with anything? And yeah I do rate with a much more clear view based on what I've seen. It's much better than talking out of your ass about something you have limited knowledge of.

Last edited by joseph5620; 09-25-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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#33
Old 09-25-2011, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
Duran broke Dejesus down in the two fights that he won. And in the third fight he completely dominated him. The length of the fights has nothing to do with the punishment Duran dished out. Claiming Duran only started to break him down after 10 is ridiculous
And Esteban DeJesus is generally regarded as an ATG Lightweight.

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#34
Old 09-25-2011, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
And Esteban DeJesus is generally regarded as an ATG Lightweight.

Poet
Because he IS an ATG Lightweight.
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#35
Old 09-25-2011, 07:08 PM
Ziggy Stardust
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Because he IS an ATG Lightweight.
Exactly
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#36
Old 09-25-2011, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DarkTerror88 View Post
Because he IS an ATG Lightweight.
so true. which is what makes it so amazing that some people point to the dejesus loss as a way to attempt to discredit durans accomplishments at 135. not realizing that dejesus was a great fighter.
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#37
Old 09-26-2011, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
I always felt Duran was number one based on resume. But I did read your thread on Ortiz and you made a great case for him.
Duran certainly has an excellent Lightweight resume but if we're ranking solely by resume I just can't see how anyone in Lightweight history comes close to Benny Leonard.

He's in a league of his own at that regard, IMO.
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#38
Old 09-26-2011, 01:20 PM
joseph5620
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Originally Posted by IronDanHamza View Post
Duran certainly has an excellent Lightweight resume but if we're ranking solely by resume I just can't see how anyone in Lightweight history comes close to Benny Leonard.

He's in a league of his own at that regard, IMO.
You're right. And I admit I'm partial to Duran because I've seen a lot more of him than I have Leonard. Head to head who would you pick?
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#39
Old 09-26-2011, 01:37 PM
IronDanHamza
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Originally Posted by joseph5620 View Post
You're right. And I admit I'm partial to Duran because I've seen a lot more of him than I have Leonard. Head to head who would you pick?
Who isn't We all saw Roberto Duran up close. Everyone's seen Duran even the ones who were unfortunate to not see his career unfold but everyone can attest to how great Duran is. We literally witnessed him tear ATG's apart and know exactly what he's capable of.

For me, that's the problem. Because we all know how great, exciting and skilled he is (along with everything else he brought and left in the ring) I feel he tends to get slightly overrated in this specific caterogory (The Lightweight Division)

I mean, Roberto Duran is one of the greatest fighters to ever lace them up. I am not disputing that, and would never.

He is a Top 4 Lightweight minimum, IMO. Which speaks for itself.

He is an absolute minimum Top 15 ATG.

I just have a problem with the idea that Duran is the undisputied #1 Lightweight of all time. Does he have an argument for that status? Absolutely. Is it without question? Absolutely not.

The Lightweight Division is way to stacked to have an 'Undisputied #1' and If it is anyone then it is Benny Leonard.

And it really gets to me when I see the likes or Carlos Ortiz ranked at #7 and lower in most instances and lists when I cannot see how his resume at Lightweight is any worse than Durans. And in my opinion argubally better.

As for the H2H match-up between Leonard and Duran I would say it's alot easier to analyse Duran considering there's much more film of Duran. And I would say I would probably lean on Duran were it to be just one fight. I lean on Duran against anyone at Lightweight were it to be just one fight.

But I think the likes of;

Leonard
Gans
Ortiz
Welsh
Williams

And some others give him all he's worth and would certainly split a trilogy or 5 fight series with him.

But in terms of H2H, I would lean on Duran everytime, IMO.

And that reasoning is personally the only way I could rank him #1 over Leonard.
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#40
Old 07-23-2013, 03:01 PM
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I can't see armstrong rated so low, he should be top 10 or even 5, & could have given any of the top 5 a run for their spot, way too low for him.
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