Can you make a argument for Marcel Cerden being the greatest ever european fighter?

[Joey Giardello]

I rate cerden very highly, i think he has a good argument to be europe's best, plus i think jimmy wilde is very over rated who alot of experts rate as the best. Your thoughts?

[D-MiZe]

Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?

[Barnburner]

Originally Posted by Demise

Why do you believe Wilde is very overrated?

I was about to ask the same thing!

[mickey malone]

It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..
Cerdan's title win against Zale was as brutal a fight you'll ever see, with Cerdan powering into him like a terminator on steroids, but i think it's fair to say that the 'man of steel' had seen better days by then..
Marcel then lost the title to Jake LaMotta.. The fight was fairly even until around mid-way when Cerdan tore is rotator-cuff, and by the 10th was unable to defend himself against the brawling LaMotta.
Had he not been tragically killed in a plane crash while travelling for the rematch, and had he won it, i think we could be talking about Cerdan as possibly the finest European fighter of all time..

[Barnburner]

I see it like this
1. Wilde
2. Fitzsimmons
3. Cerdan

So yes anyone in the Top 5 could have an arguement but, I think the two fighters named above him surpass his achievments with Fitzsimmons winning titles in 3 weight classes and Wilde fighting opponents much heavier than himself almost constantly and still remaining on top.

[Kid McCoy]

Originally Posted by mickey malone

It could be argued that he wasn't even the best fighter to come out of France, let alone Europe.. I'd say Georges Carpentier slightly exceeds Cerdan in terms of lifetime achievement..

I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.

[sonnyboyx2]

Cerdan was brilliant and a good case can be made for him

[mickey malone]

Originally Posted by Kid McCoy

I was thinking Marcel Thil, a very under-appreciated fighter who imo was at least on a par with Cerdan.

As for Cerdan if he'd gone to America earlier we'd have a better guage on how good he was. As it is, going life and death three times with an ordinary fighter like Graziano is a good indicator of Zale's level when Cerdan got to him, although Georgie Abrams (who gave Sugar Ray Robinson a tough fight a few months later) was a top win and an aging but still tough Holman Williams is not to be sniffed at. I would say that Wilde and Fitz surpass him, and maybe the likes of Kid Lewis and Thil do too.

Agreed.. Thil was a very underrrated fighter who like Cerdan, briefly held the middleweight title.

[GJC]

Don't agree Wilde is over rated but I do think Cerdan is under rated and certainly bears comparison with Europe's best. Much as I'd like to I don't really count Fitz as European.
Cerdan really got screwed by the war more than most as it stopped him getting to the states when he was at his peak. You need to remember 1st he had to get to France then he had to get to the States. Great great fighter.