I laugh whenever someone rates Ruben Olivares above Juan Manuel Marquez

[jrosales13]

Originally Posted by -MAKAVELLI-

yea...i would have continued but that sh1t was like $70/mo...at the time i was working for Countrywide so money was kinda tight

How long ago was it?

[-MAKAVELLI-]

Originally Posted by jrosales13

How long ago was it?

about 5-6 years ago...he trained people at the Police Club out here in the 818

[RubenSonny]

Originally Posted by Subtraction

No actually he isn't. Its all boxing mythology. A sport where records were kept poorly, there was "newspaper" decisions, blacks couldn't even compete, and fights were normally rigged.

If that wasn't enough, new athletes are always better than ones in the past, its true in every sport.


Do you think George Mikan is better than Olajuwon or Shaq?

Newspaper decisions are a more valid claim than JMM beating Pac. Which top black fighters did Greb not fight? Maybe you should brush up on your history. What proof do you have that Grebs fights were rigged, someone could say the same for todays fights, and aren't you claiming JMM beat Pac. If you believe the bolded is directly applicable to boxing, then you don't know what your watching and also comparing individual basketball players to the generally quality of boxers over time is fools logic.

[Bastian Loc]

Originally Posted by RubenSonny

Newspaper decisions are a more valid claim than JMM beating Pac. Which top black fighters did Greb not fight? Maybe you should brush up on your history. What proof do you have that Grebs fights were rigged, someone could say the same for todays fights, and aren't you claiming JMM beat Pac. If you believe the bolded is directly applicable to boxing, then you don't know what your watching and also comparing individual basketball players to the generally quality of boxers over time is fools logic.

Not just Greb, but all kinds of fights were rigged. Boxing was run by mobsters so can you really be surprised?

You can compare any athletes from past to present. Look at how runners have evolved.

You really think some sprinter from the 1940's could beat Usain Bolt? It actually doesn't matter what you think because we have records of the times.

[RubenSonny]

Originally Posted by jrosales13

Agree,

the one thing that does help 'Finito' is his longevity, 2 division champ, 20 title defenses.

The one thing that really hurts him is never fighting Carbajal or Chiquita or even a Too Sharp at 112.

He could've beat those two but from what I hear its not his fault that those fights didn't materialise, Too Sharp would've been a step to far imo but it would've been a a ridiculous chessmatch.

[jrosales13]

Originally Posted by RubenSonny

Newspaper decisions are a more valid claim than JMM beating Pac. Which top black fighters did Greb not fight? Maybe you should brush up on your history. What proof do you have that Grebs fights were rigged, someone could say the same for todays fights, and aren't you claiming JMM beat Pac. If you believe the bolded is directly applicable to boxing, then you don't know what your watching and also comparing individual basketball players to the generally quality of boxers over time is fools logic.

Jack thinks since the guys of that time like Dempsey didn't cross the color line. Just for a couple early fights. Thinks that every fighter in that time didn't cross the color line.

So he does not know much about Greb. And, is useless to talk to him about it cuz' he is not willing to put the time or effort to really do his research in the matter.

Jack is a Johnny Comelately fan.

He just useless shot poster now.

[Bastian Loc]

Originally Posted by jrosales13

Jack thinks since the guys of that time like Dempsey didn't cross the color line. Just for a couple early fights. Thinks that every fighter in that time didn't cross the color line.

So he does not know much about Greb. And, is useless to talk to him about it cuz' he is not willing to put the time or effort to really do his research in the matter.

Jack is a Johnny Comelately fan.

He just useless shot poster now.

Your mom's a shot poster.

You can't prove anything about Harry Greb you arrogant twat. All you do is guess with other retards about fighters you've never even seen.

You're like a blind man picking out his favorite color.

[RubenSonny]

Originally Posted by Subtraction

Not just Greb, but all kinds of fights were rigged. Boxing was run by mobsters so can you really be surprised?

You can compare any athletes from past to present. Look at how runners have evolved.

You really think some sprinter from the 1940's could beat Usain Bolt? It actually doesn't matter what you think because we have records of the times.

But we were talking about Greb and I asked you to prove his fights have been rigged and you couldn't. You claim JMM beat Pac and your criticising boxing in the past for being rigged? That doesn't make any sense, most people know which fights were rigged and which were not.

Strangely enough sprinting has nothing to do with boxing, clearly you cant understndsimple concepts and the argument isn't even about H2H.

[Cuauhtli.]

Originally Posted by Subtraction

lol @ ruined.

He didn't fight like he was ruined. He fought like the "old" Juan Diaz.

Casa wasn't shot, he had just got done beating Kats in a foty candidate. The "robbery" against Santa Cruz is greatly exaggerated.

That could've gone either way only cuz' Casa didn't take him seriously.

I agree, people also forget the fact that Casa had won his previous 5 fights, 3 of them by KO and he had never been KO'd. Marquez gets my respect for stopping a hall of famer/gold medalist like Casamayor.

[Steak]

JMM is a bit overrated because hes fighting right now...and hes also great to watch.

dont get me wrong, the guy is definitely talented, but a lot of his best 'wins' are controversial.

I had him beating Pacquiao the second time around, but I cant say that it was a robbery at all: it was extremely close.

Despite people ignoring the fight, a past prime Barrera actually might have deserved the decision against Marquez. Barrera faded late, but imo landed the more effective shots and was not credited for a very legit knockdown.
lets not forget his losses to Freddie and Chris John(whatever happened to that guy...?)


now think: what is Marquez's best win that was not controversial? probably Juan Diaz. and Diaz admittedly was coming off a thrashing against Nate Campbell, who landed over 400 punches on Diaz that night and probably took less punishment than Marquez did.

Marquez is a great fighter, but his record is patchy. not only does he have controversial losses/wins, but hes actually fairly easy to hit and can be pushed by somewhat mediocre fighters, as shown when he fought guys such as Terdsak and Jaca.


...I dont know enough about Olivares to say if Marquez should be rated above him or not.