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#11
Old 12-31-2010, 04:00 AM
sonnyboyx2
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Thats fair enough i will agree with you on that he deserved a shot before Gibbons but the fact still remains that Greb lost vital fights to Tunney and Loughran which scuppered his Heavyweight title chances.. Tunney beat him each time by a little more than he had the previous meeting, so by their final fight he was the master of Greb yet Tunney had not recieved a title shot by then and he was clearly more deserving than Harry Greb.. The article you posted claims Gibbons was looking for a one-punch KO of Greb and Greb knew he was capable of doing it... Just think what Dempsey would have done.
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#12
Old 01-01-2011, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Thats fair enough i will agree with you on that he deserved a shot before Gibbons but the fact still remains that Greb lost vital fights to Tunney and Loughran which scuppered his Heavyweight title chances.. Tunney beat him each time by a little more than he had the previous meeting, so by their final fight he was the master of Greb yet Tunney had not recieved a title shot by then and he was clearly more deserving than Harry Greb.. The article you posted claims Gibbons was looking for a one-punch KO of Greb and Greb knew he was capable of doing it... Just think what Dempsey would have done.
Re the Greb Tunney fights apart from the first and last ones which were decisive wins for each of them the others appear to be competetive.
I think the pereived view years ago (mine included) was that Tunney "pulled away" so to speak but there are strong claims that could split their series pretty evenly. I think if the fights hadn't have been competetive they probably wouldn't have fought that many times.
As for the Loughran loss affecting Greb's chances of a shot at Dempsey I can't see it. Even that fight was close and was avenged by Greb pretty soon after. I think if you have 2 great fighters and they fight each other enough both of them will get a win.
I'm a big fan of Loughran but Greb appears to have had his number. This happens, Archie Moore had Johnson's number Charles had Moore's number.
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#13
Old 06-06-2012, 08:50 PM
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I remember reading somewhere that Greb insisted on fighting Dempsey for the title, but only for 6 rounds, which Dempsey refused. Greb said that he could beat Dempsey in 6 rounds, but anything more than 6 rounds and Dempsey would figure him out and catch up to him. I wish I had the source for this. So I can't really blame Dempsey for not taking a fight against Greb if it was only going to be a 6 rounder. I mean, a 6 round title fight for the heavyweight championship? Also they apparently sparred 3 times, the first time Greb took Dempsey to school, the second time it was about even, the third time Dempsey had the better of it, in part because he had figured Greb out, and also in part because Greb (according to him at least) held back.

I agree that sparring doesn't really mean anything, Paul Spadafora absolutely schooled Floyd Mayweather in sparring but no one's gonna make the arguement that Spadafora would've beaten Floyd.

Also Greb and Gibbons are career 2 and 2 against each other. Gibbons gave Greb a beating in the second fight and did well in the third fight before the rain interrupted the fight and destroyed his momentum. In the fourth fight Greb one lopsidedly, that is true, but Gibbons entered the fight sick and with a with a broken hand. So Gibbons and Greb were more or less even. Greb beat Miske twice but both fights were very close, Miske landed the harder punches and came on strong in the late rounds.

Still, having said all that I do believe that Dempsey should've given Greb a fight, even if it were just a 6 round non title fight. I think Greb did enough to earn it, beating several of Dempsey's opponents. But I think Dempsey beat those guys more comprehensively than Greb did, with the exception of Meehan.

I also think Kid Norfolk, who beat Greb twice, should've gotten a shot as well, but he got destroyed by above mentioned Gibbons. Dempsey's reign was not the strongest but it wasn't really his fault, blame Kearns.

Last edited by mrchallenge; 06-06-2012 at 08:55 PM. Reason: .
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#14
Old 06-07-2012, 01:24 AM
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check out this article on dempsey-loughran's sparring match, very interesting.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...62/1/index.htm

i think jack fell off in his 3 year layoff.

i thought this was interesting:
"Now, Jack and I were pretty good friends. I had lived at his hotel in Los Angeles for three months the year before, and I got to know him then. I used to study him a lot, watch his moves. I knew he had this Indian blood. Boy, I'm telling you, if there ever was a vicious person, he was it. He had these stalking methods, typical of an Indian. Jack would walk on the balls of his feet, not back on his heels like most.

"Yet he had the most attractive personality. You couldn't help but like him. He had a gracious smile, a good handshake, would always have something nice to say. But at the same time I knew he had this other streak in him, and boy, I'm telling you, if he had a chance, that would be it. He was the only man I was ever afraid of, and I think he knew it."
- loughran

what do you think gave loughran the impression dempsey was a vicious person?
i think what loughran meant was that jack was ruthless, if you left an opening he would not hesitate in trying to knock you out. thats what i get out of the indian blood, walking on balls of his feet stalker talk.
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#15
Old 06-20-2012, 11:40 AM
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Even if Greb did get the better of Dempsey in sparring, the real deal, Jack would take him in the middle rounds of a title fight.
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#16
Old 06-20-2012, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mrchallenge View Post
I remember reading somewhere that Greb insisted on fighting Dempsey for the title, but only for 6 rounds, which Dempsey refused. Greb said that he could beat Dempsey in 6 rounds, but anything more than 6 rounds and Dempsey would figure him out and catch up to him. I wish I had the source for this. So I can't really blame Dempsey for not taking a fight against Greb if it was only going to be a 6 rounder. I mean, a 6 round title fight for the heavyweight championship? Also they apparently sparred 3 times, the first time Greb took Dempsey to school, the second time it was about even, the third time Dempsey had the better of it, in part because he had figured Greb out, and also in part because Greb (according to him at least) held back.

I agree that sparring doesn't really mean anything, Paul Spadafora absolutely schooled Floyd Mayweather in sparring but no one's gonna make the arguement that Spadafora would've beaten Floyd.

Also Greb and Gibbons are career 2 and 2 against each other. Gibbons gave Greb a beating in the second fight and did well in the third fight before the rain interrupted the fight and destroyed his momentum. In the fourth fight Greb one lopsidedly, that is true, but Gibbons entered the fight sick and with a with a broken hand. So Gibbons and Greb were more or less even. Greb beat Miske twice but both fights were very close, Miske landed the harder punches and came on strong in the late rounds.

Still, having said all that I do believe that Dempsey should've given Greb a fight, even if it were just a 6 round non title fight. I think Greb did enough to earn it, beating several of Dempsey's opponents. But I think Dempsey beat those guys more comprehensively than Greb did, with the exception of Meehan.

I also think Kid Norfolk, who beat Greb twice, should've gotten a shot as well, but he got destroyed by above mentioned Gibbons. Dempsey's reign was not the strongest but it wasn't really his fault, blame Kearns.
Greb was after Dempsey for years while Jack was fighting guys Harry had already beaten or blatantly avoided him. Kearns himself said they wanted no part of Greb and that can be found in newspaper articles. I have little doubt Greb would have accepted any terms to fight for the heavyweight championship has he never avoided any fighter for any reason. I won't speculate as to whether he would have won, but he had as good a chance as any other fighter and was more deserving than the majority Dempsey did fight.

Last edited by JAB5239; 06-20-2012 at 01:07 PM.
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#17
Old 06-21-2012, 04:10 AM
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If someone had footage of these two sparring, it would be worth a fortune!
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#18
Old 06-21-2012, 06:46 PM
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No matter how good you are there is always someone who will give you problems in the gym. That is what is called gettin work which sparring partners never get credit for. The kings of the gym have no titles.
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