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#11
Old 12-25-2010, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
When was Jofre voted as the best bantamweight of all time?

Ruben Olivares was voted the best bantam of all time by the IBHOF who also voted Jimmy Wilde as the greatest Flyweight of all time... Those who voted Jofre don't have a clue of what they voted against, Wilde was a phenomenon whose achievements will never be equaled. he beat world class fighters who weighed as much as 70-80lbs heavier than he did and he took part in as many as 300 fights..he was the undisputed champion of the world and only father-time beat "The Mighty Atom"...Jofre's achievements pale in comparison and i am quite surprised that he could be considered greater when the reality is he should not be named in the same breath as Jimmy Wilde.
Jofre is arguably undefeated and his only losses came after a lay off and weight issues, he cleared out a strong Bantamweight era dominating everyone (cept Harada of course, scored both fights for him though) then moved up to featherweight and did very well there.

Wilde was just as dominant but he mainly only fought out of Europe and was overall pitted against inferior opposition to Jofre.

Quote:
Those who voted Jofre don't have a clue of what they voted against
I feel comfortable ranking Jofre ahead of Wilde, I'd find it hard for someone to convince me otherwise really.

Jofre > Olivares.

He's consider by plenty of Historians to be the greatest Bantam ever, just because IBHOF doesn't put him there does not mean they have the final word.

Last edited by NChristo; 12-25-2010 at 11:52 AM.
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#12
Old 12-25-2010, 11:32 AM
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Wilde's reputation and the stories of his 'herculean' feats precede his actual achievements in the sport, but he was unquestionably great, as was Jofre who did not enjoy facing the greatest competition, but made up for it with dominance.

I'd probably rate Jofre above Wilde myself, but there's not much to it. I feel neither truly make the top 20 pound for pound list.
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#13
Old 12-25-2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
When was Jofre voted as the best bantamweight of all time?

Ruben Olivares was voted the best bantam of all time by the IBHOF who also voted Jimmy Wilde as the greatest Flyweight of all time... Those who voted Jofre don't have a clue of what they voted against, Wilde was a phenomenon whose achievements will never be equaled. he beat world class fighters who weighed as much as 70-80lbs heavier than he did and he took part in as many as 300 fights..he was the undisputed champion of the world and only father-time beat "The Mighty Atom"...Jofre's achievements pale in comparison and i am quite surprised that he could be considered greater when the reality is he should not be named in the same breath as Jimmy Wilde.
Jofre's achievements pale in comparison to no fighter .... ever.

Also, these 300 fights? Do you mean the backyard bareknuckle stuff? I wouldn't really count those. Most were against nobodies. Which fights were the 70-80 pound differences in?

His notable recorded fights were all at and around the FW limit with both him and his opponent weighing basically the same.

What were his best opponents and how do they make the guys Jofre beat pale in comparison?

Wilde's best work was done in the last five to ten years in his career and the rest was really just nothing. Knocking out guys with little to no fights etc. He's great and a truly incredible fighter but his accomplishments do not equal those you speak of.
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#14
Old 12-25-2010, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by NChristo View Post
Jofre is arguably undefeated and his only losses came after a lay off and weight issues, he cleared out a very strong Bantamweight era dominating everyone then move up to featherweight and did very well there.

Wilde was just as dominant but he mainly only fought out of Europe and was overall pitted against much inferior opposition to Jofre.


I feel comfortable ranking Jofre ahead of Wilde, I'd find it hard for someone to convince me otherwise really.

Jofre > Olivares.

He's consider by plenty of Historians to be the greatest Bantam ever, just because IBHOF doesn't put him there does not mean they have the final word.
Jofre fought 4 times outside South America going 2-2.. Wilde fought in the strongest ever era of Flyweights and traveled to the USA and conquered the world, Wilde was undefeated in his first 115 fights his final record being 134-4 (100) with his 4 defeats coming at the tail-end of his incredible career.

i am not getting into an argument with you over who was greater.... when listing the Top 10 greatest Flyweights of All Time. you think of fighters to rate from No2 to No10 because Wilde is and always had been No1... when doing the same for Bantamweights all time Top 10 then it is debatable if you get my drift.
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#15
Old 12-25-2010, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TheGreatA View Post
Wilde's reputation and the stories of his 'herculean' feats precede his actual achievements in the sport, but he was unquestionably great, as was Jofre who did not enjoy facing the greatest competition, but made up for it with dominance.

I'd probably rate Jofre above Wilde myself, but there's not much to it. I feel neither truly make the top 20 pound for pound list.
I would consider his BW era easily one of the greatest ever.
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#16
Old 12-25-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
Jofre fought 4 times outside South America going 2-2.. Wilde fought in the strongest ever era of Flyweights and traveled to the USA and conquered the world, Wilde was undefeated in his first 115 fights his final record being 134-4 (100) with his 4 defeats coming at the tail-end of his incredible career.

i am not getting into an argument with you over who was greater.... when listing the Top 10 greatest Flyweights of All Time. you think of fighters to rate from No2 to No10 because Wilde is and always had been No1... when doing the same for Bantamweights all time Top 10 then it is debatable if you get my drift.
Isn't that exactly what you're doing? Aren't you the one who brought it up and insisted those that said Jofre were completely wrong and that he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath and his accomplishments pale in comparison, thus stating your own opinion as the only right and true opinion?

Or are you just stating it as fact rather than giving your opinion in a discussion thread?
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#17
Old 12-25-2010, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BennyST View Post
Isn't that exactly what you're doing? Aren't you the one who brought it up and insisted those that said Jofre were completely wrong and that he shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath and his accomplishments pale in comparison, thus stating your own opinion as the only right and true opinion?

Or are you just stating it as fact rather than giving your opinion in a discussion thread?
yeah, that was me
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#18
Old 12-25-2010, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
i am not getting into an argument with you over who was greater
But that's what this thread is for and think of it more as a debate then an argument. But whatever, if you don't want to then fine.

Quote:
Wilde was undefeated in his first 115 fights his final record being 134-4(100)
Jofre had the longest undefeated (no draws / NC) streak up until Nino Benvenuti took it of him and eventually JCC. Just saying.

Quote:
Bantamweights all time Top 10 then it is debatable if you get my drift.
I agree about flyweight and Wilde but I also think it's the same with Bantam really.
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#19
Old 12-25-2010, 11:48 AM
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yeah, that was me
Excellent.
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Old 12-25-2010, 03:30 PM
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Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Tha_Greatest Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Tha_Greatest Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Tha_Greatest Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Tha_Greatest Arthritis - Child Abuse - Colon Cancer - Colorectal Cancer - Dystonia - Education - Free Speech - Interstitial Cystitis - ME/CFIDS - Reye's Syndrome - Save the Music - Teens Against Smoking - Victim's Rights - Water Quality - Tha_Greatest 
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Originally Posted by sonnyboyx2 View Post
When was Jofre voted as the best bantamweight of all time?

Jofre was voted best bantam all time by the IBRO. All time Wilde id 14th, Jofre 15th.
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