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#11
Old 12-09-2010, 01:39 PM
CarlosG815
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Originally Posted by Holtol View Post
Strange how maybe three of the more talented heavyweights the last 30 years were only at their best for a short time. Tyson had a longer prime then Bowe and Douglas.
Something to consider when talking Tyson's prime... Sure it was short in "years" when compared to other fighters, but consider how much he fought.

He was 37-0 when he lost to Buster and was on, I believe, his 10th title defense. Even with a prison layoff, at the time he lost to Holyfield, he was 45-1, and that was in 1995 after a 3 year layoff.

Lennox Lewis throughout his entire career, which was long and uninterrupted, only tallied 44 fights throughout his career.

Tyson retired with 56 total fights, yet Evander had a much longer, uninterrupted career, and had I believe only 55 total fights.

The whole "Tyson's prime was short" may be true when speaking in years, but he fought a ton of fights, and fought everybody there was to fight, even if he did lose to Holyfield, who was the best fighter he fought while closest to his (Tyson's) prime.

He had no family to fight for, no mentor, yet he was still able to train hard and get in the ring, but for who? Money hungry managers, promoters and trainers who just wanted to use him to make money, as he was the cash cow. He was the youngest ever heavyweight, had millions upon millions of dollars, undisputed champion, etc... How do you stay focused and disciplined? Living a lifestyle that doesn't allow you to do things that young adults like to do, such as party and stay out late, etc... It was bound to fall apart, as he had nobody to fight for but a bunch of losers suckling at the teat.

His prime lasted longer than most in "fights" just not in "years."
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#12
Old 12-09-2010, 01:59 PM
Holtol
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Originally Posted by CarlosG815 View Post
Something to consider when talking Tyson's prime... Sure it was short in "years" when compared to other fighters, but consider how much he fought.

He was 37-0 when he lost to Buster and was on, I believe, his 10th title defense. Even with a prison layoff, at the time he lost to Holyfield, he was 45-1, and that was in 1995 after a 3 year layoff.

Lennox Lewis throughout his entire career, which was long and uninterrupted, only tallied 44 fights throughout his career.

Tyson retired with 56 total fights, yet Evander had a much longer, uninterrupted career, and had I believe only 55 total fights.

The whole "Tyson's prime was short" may be true when speaking in years, but he fought a ton of fights, and fought everybody there was to fight, even if he did lose to Holyfield, who was the best fighter he fought while closest to his (Tyson's) prime.

He had no family to fight for, no mentor, yet he was still able to train hard and get in the ring, but for who? Money hungry managers, promoters and trainers who just wanted to use him to make money, as he was the cash cow. He was the youngest ever heavyweight, had millions upon millions of dollars, undisputed champion, etc... How do you stay focused and disciplined? Living a lifestyle that doesn't allow you to do things that young adults like to do, such as party and stay out late, etc... It was bound to fall apart, as he had nobody to fight for but a bunch of losers suckling at the teat.

His prime lasted longer than most in "fights" just not in "years."
Yeah I remember they really wanted to keep him busy early in his career. I still hold it against boxers if they lose focus though. I am not saying it is easy by any stretch of the imagination. But to me to be a truly great boxer has to stay focused, Bowe, Douglas, and Tyson all lost their focus. But Tyson did have a better career to me then Bowe and definitely Douglas.
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#13
Old 12-09-2010, 02:47 PM
Kid McCoy
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Originally Posted by JonesvsHopkins View Post
Do you think with hard work, focus, & dedication he had the potential to be a HW ATG?
Buster was a great physical talent but lacked the mentality of a great fighter. He wasn't always motivated or in good shape and had a tendency to just give up in tough fights, like against Tony Tucker who he was beating. I always got the feeling he didn't really like boxing.

Against Tyson, several factors came together (the recent loss of his mother, his dislike of Tyson and being expected to lose handily) to ensure he entered a fight highly motivated and in great shape for probably the only time in his life, and showed just how good he could have been. Unfortunately, he immediately reverted back to the old Buster again and showed up for Holyfield looking like he hadn't spent a day in the gym and effectively just gave up his hard-won title.

Give him Marciano's mindset and I think he could have been a great.
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#14
Old 12-09-2010, 02:56 PM
sonnyboyx2
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Originally Posted by Kid McCoy View Post
Buster was a great physical talent but lacked the mentality of a great fighter. He wasn't always motivated or in good shape and had a tendency to just give up in tough fights, like against Tony Tucker who he was beating. I always got the feeling he didn't really like boxing.

Against Tyson, several factors came together (the recent loss of his mother, his dislike of Tyson and being expected to lose handily) to ensure he entered a fight highly motivated and in great shape for probably the only time in his life, and showed just how good he could have been. Unfortunately, he immediately reverted back to the old Buster again and showed up for Holyfield looking like he hadn't spent a day in the gym and effectively just gave up his hard-won title.

Give him Marciano's mindset and I think he could have been a great.
as mentioned earlier the Tyson fight was not his only great performance.. Take a look at his fights with McCall, Berbick, Page, Ferguson & Williams where he looked just as good as he did against Tyson
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#15
Old 12-09-2010, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid McCoy View Post
Buster was a great physical talent but lacked the mentality of a great fighter. He wasn't always motivated or in good shape and had a tendency to just give up in tough fights, like against Tony Tucker who he was beating. I always got the feeling he didn't really like boxing.

Against Tyson, several factors came together (the recent loss of his mother, his dislike of Tyson and being expected to lose handily) to ensure he entered a fight highly motivated and in great shape for probably the only time in his life, and showed just how good he could have been. Unfortunately, he immediately reverted back to the old Buster again and showed up for Holyfield looking like he hadn't spent a day in the gym and effectively just gave up his hard-won title.

Give him Marciano's mindset and I think he could have been a great.
Buster did what he had to do to get his Tyson publicity and his megafight with Holyfield which was worth 20m. I'm sure it was documented he never liked boxing and only did it because he was quite good at it. He had got his Tyson money + 20m, more than enough to live comfortably for the rest of your life, and why continue fighting if you don't enjoy it?
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#16
Old 12-09-2010, 04:22 PM
Kid McCoy
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Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
Buster did what he had to do to get his Tyson publicity and his megafight with Holyfield which was worth 20m. I'm sure it was documented he never liked boxing and only did it because he was quite good at it. He had got his Tyson money + 20m, more than enough to live comfortably for the rest of your life, and why continue fighting if you don't enjoy it?
And what he did was entirely up to him. But it's a good example of why he never made the most of his talent.
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#17
Old 12-09-2010, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kid McCoy View Post
I always got the feeling he didn't really like boxing.
He's on record as saying he didn't. Apparently he never wanted to be a boxer and only did it to please his dad.

Poet
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#18
Old 12-10-2010, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by poet682006 View Post
He's on record as saying he didn't. Apparently he never wanted to be a boxer and only did it to please his dad.

Poet
Kind of like Julio Cesar Chavez' sons are doing now?
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#19
Old 12-10-2010, 02:11 AM
Wild Blue Yonda
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Didn't Douglas once state he cleared $600 for his fight with Tyson?
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#20
Old 12-10-2010, 07:31 AM
Yaman
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Originally Posted by Barnburner View Post
Definitely could have been a near-great, the Douglas of the Tyson night would give all ATG a tough fight. I don't think he quite had it takes to make it to ATG status, he beat Tyson because Tyson couldn't deal with someone beating him, any other Champion would have pulled through.
What a bunch of nonsense. This was in 1990 where Tyson would have had his head decapitated and still would try to get his mouthpiece from the canvas just to continue. Not 1996. You should form your own opinion instead of repeating other people.
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